Milestones Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Coltrane is known for his incredible intensity, marathon solos, sheets of sound. But what of Trane in the opposite mode: the ballads player? As far as I’m concerned, he is one of the greatest who ever lived. The Atlantic and Impulse periods include the fine Ballads album, the Duke Ellington collaboration (most notably “In a Sentimental Mood”), and most importantly (IMO) his original ballads—if we are to consider tunes such as “Naima,” “Central Park West,” “Welcome,” After the Rain,” and “Wise One” as ballads. But he was already great in the Prestige era. What absolutely marvelous work on the likes of “Theme for Ernie,” “Violets for Your Furs,” “Don’t Take Your Love from Me,” “I See Your Face Before Me,” “Solutrane,” “I Want to Talk About You,” and many more. His was not the breathy tenor ballad style favored by most on the horn, but it was completely distinctive and displayed great sensitivity. It strikes me as odd that Trane often sat out on ballads in Miles’ groups. True, he is on “Round About Midnight,” but plays in anything but a ballad manner. It would have been intriguing indeed to hear Trane on “It Never Entered My Mind,” or for that matter Miles on “I See Your Face Before Me.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homefromtheforest Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 "Ballads" and "with Duke Ellington" are some of my most played Coltrane albums actually which is sort of weird because I love all sorts of free jazz. I love them so much I spent a bit of dough tracking down mint original vinyl issues...absolutely sublime music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Adding to the list, Alabama and Why Was I Born? (with Kenny Burrell)/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 It strikes me as odd that Trane often sat out on ballads in Miles’ groups. True, he is on “Round About Midnight,” but plays in anything but a ballad manner. It would have been intriguing indeed to hear Trane on “It Never Entered My Mind,” or for that matter Miles on “I See Your Face Before Me.” I don't think it's that odd. Miles was the leader and his harmon-muted ballads were probably the thing he was most known for in those days among a large swath of his audience. It's logical that Miles would keep those slow tunes for himself. Moreover, in those days the performances were still relatively short -- it certainly wasn't de rigueur for bands to play 10-minute ballads with round-robin solos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Also there are rough spots by Trane on the Miles sessions ... he was making GIANT strides in the shortest of times back then ... I think his playing on the album with Tadd Dameron is a first high-water mark (inlcuding some gorgeous slow playing!). By 1957 he was with Monk and that seems to have helped him big time - and I guess one can hear that in the Prestige albums of that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Also there are rough spots by Trane on the Miles sessions ... THIS. Trane's playing on the Prestige Miles sessions (esp the Nov 1955 and May 1956 dates) was erratic and Miles probably didn't want him screwing up the ballads. Once he became a more consistent player, Miles started including him. It's worth noting that at the Nov 1956 session, where his playing was much better, he played a solo on two of the three ballads. And he's a soloist on "Blue in Green", where Cannonball Adderley (himself a fine ballad player) has to sit out. Since we are singing the praises of Trane's ballad playing, let's not omit his magnificent playing on "Dearly Beloved", "Love", "Serenity", "Psalm", "Song of Praise", "Ogunde", "Offering", "Seraphic Light", "Venus"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome_welles Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 It would have been intriguing indeed to hear Trane on “It Never Entered My Mind,” Also there are rough spots by Trane on the Miles sessions ... THIS. Trane's playing on the Prestige Miles sessions (esp the Nov 1955 and May 1956 dates) was erratic and Miles probably didn't want him screwing up the ballads. I seem to recall that if you listen carefully to the end of "It Never Entered My Mind" you can hear Coltrane almost ruin the ending. I've always the found the album "Ballads" to be enjoyable but a tad underwhelming. Although that's judging it against his other work, so may be a little unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I've always the found the album "Ballads" to be enjoyable but a tad underwhelming. Although that's judging it against his other work, so may be a little unfair. Yes - ironic that his best ballad performances are elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't think I've ever heard "Seraphic Light" or "Venus." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome_welles Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I also haven't heard "Seraphic Light" (and some of the others that Guy mentioned) but "Venus" is off "Interstellar Space", a late Coltrane album which is a duet with the drummer Rashied Ali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I've always given the "Ballads" album lesser weight because of its more deliberately commercial angle, an effort by Bob Thiele to make Coltrane more acceptable to mainstream audiences (or rehabilitate him for those audiences), who were starting to balk at Coltrane's avant leanings and new mode of playing. Not that Coltrane objected too strenuously, but the passionate personal commitment of the later Impulse albums (or even some of the earlier Atlantics) is really not there. It seems a retrograde step to me. It also seems to me that his best ballads are not romantically grounded but mystically infused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 When you take this into account, Ballads is an amazing achievement by a working quartet that was firing on all cylinders: from wikipedia Critic Gene Lees stated that the quartet had never played the tunes before. "They arrived with music-store sheet music of the songs" and just before the recordings, they "would discuss each tune, write-out copies of the changes they'd use, semi-rehearse for a half hour and then do it". All the pieces were recorded in one take, except for "All or Nothing at All" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 After I got rid of the Quartet box, I never got another copy of Ballads. Like others before I prefer to listen to later songs like Dear Lord, Dearly Beloved, Seraphic Light, etc. when I'm in the mood for a Coltrane ballad type tune. Dear Lord sounds amazing on the SHM of Transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 When you take this into account, Ballads is an amazing achievement by a working quartet that was firing on all cylinders: from wikipedia Critic Gene Lees stated that the quartet had never played the tunes before. "They arrived with music-store sheet music of the songs" and just before the recordings, they "would discuss each tune, write-out copies of the changes they'd use, semi-rehearse for a half hour and then do it". All the pieces were recorded in one take, except for "All or Nothing at All" Wow, great story, I never heard that one! I used to have the Deluxe Edition of "Ballads", and Trane, despite moving into the outer reaches, still played magnificently. I mean, no matter how "out" Trane got, there were always hints of tender playing ("Compassion" is beautiful) blues, and bop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 There are 7 alternates for It's Easy to Remember in the Deluxe Edition, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 There are 7 alternates for It's Easy to Remember in the Deluxe Edition, I remember being a bit bogged down by those alternate because the original album is just so perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome_welles Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 ...It also seems to me that his best ballads are not romantically grounded but mystically infused. I'm not sure I follow you completely. From my own modest collection of his albums, I really enjoy "Like Someone in Love" from Lush Life, "In a Sentimental Mood" from the Duke Ellington album and of course "Blue in Green" for example, and count them amongst the best of his ballad playing (there is a lot of Coltrane material that I haven't heard though especially late Coltrane). Would you say that those are "mystically infused"? How about "Naima"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah, if Lees story has any merit he got the title of the tune with alternates wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 ...It also seems to me that his best ballads are not romantically grounded but mystically infused. I'm not sure I follow you completely. From my own modest collection of his albums, I really enjoy "Like Someone in Love" from Lush Life, "In a Sentimental Mood" from the Duke Ellington album and of course "Blue in Green" for example, and count them amongst the best of his ballad playing (there is a lot of Coltrane material that I haven't heard though especially late Coltrane). Would you say that those are "mystically infused"? How about "Naima"? I would definitely call the intense and intensely beautiful material from 1965 like Dear Lord, Dearly Beloved, and certain pieces from First Meditations for example mystically infused ballads. They probably wouldn't qualify as ballads by definition. These pieces are profound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 ...It also seems to me that his best ballads are not romantically grounded but mystically infused. I'm not sure I follow you completely. From my own modest collection of his albums, I really enjoy "Like Someone in Love" from Lush Life, "In a Sentimental Mood" from the Duke Ellington album and of course "Blue in Green" for example, and count them amongst the best of his ballad playing (there is a lot of Coltrane material that I haven't heard though especially late Coltrane). Would you say that those are "mystically infused"? How about "Naima"? I would definitely call the intense and intensely beautiful material from 1965 like Dear Lord, Dearly Beloved, and certain pieces from First Meditations for example mystically infused ballads. They probably wouldn't qualify as ballads by definition. These pieces are profound. Kind of what erwbol said. I think "Naima" qualifies, the others don't. (I'm talking about Coltrane leader dates, but I assume you are referring to "Blue in Green" on "Kind of Blue." Having Miles on the recording changes the context). Perhaps you rate them more highly than I do. My larger point is that when Coltrane was able to get out of the "me and thee" of Tin Pan Alley ballads and into some larger sphere of feeling or connectedness, then his music is more powerful. "I love you" as opposed to "a love supreme." To me, handing Coltrane a stack of well-worn ballads was insulting, and a cash grab. Did someone tell Picasso, "Pablo baby, all these cube things, with womens' heads on sideways," just not what people are asking for. Here, paint some nice boats on a lake or something, people can hang over their sofas." Although well-made, according to the conventional standards, it was retrogressive to his particular artistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm not sure that's all there is ... I see how you (and many others) arrive at that point, but I'm not convinced the story ends there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Trane was a great ballad player, but I do have one pet peeve: replacing the beautiful contrary motion Strayhorn had in the last two bars of Lush Life with chromatic 7th#9 chords. I wish he hadn't done that. Oh well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Two points. 1) Yes, there is that mystical/spiritual quality in the later work. There is "Welcome," "Dear Lord," "Wise One," "Alabama," and many more. I mean, how does "Alabama" fit at all into the Tin Pan Alley type of ballad? These are great pieces, and a large part of what makes Coltrane a distinctively great artist. 2) There is much to admire in the traditional ballads found mainly on Prestige. Trane surely loved this material to play it so well. I also read somewhere that Trane knew virtually everything in the Great American Songbook. If Trane and his group had never before played (together) the songs on the Ballads record (Impulse), I'm sure they knew them; these are not obscure standards. As with others, I would think, my appreciation of Ballads has grown with each repeated listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Romance is not mush when it's mystical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Somewhere I read a story about Roland Kirk and Coltrane discussing a club in Chicago where neither of them were ever booked. Kirk says it was because it was a dining room where you were expected to play only ballads for the first set to which Trane replies :"I can play ballads". (Anyone know where I might have rad this and what the actual quote was?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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