Andrew Hill, Point of Departure - 50 years ago ago

[Rooster_Ties]

Listened to most of POD last night - the first four tracks anyway - and I realized it had been ages since I'd spun it (since it was only single-disc Hill I owned early on for a good 8-10 years, I guess I've gravitated more towards the others in recent years).

Dolphy didn't dominate last night quite as strongly as I remembered (and it helped that I'd recently been spinning Out To Lunch from the new, expanded SHM-CD edition), but Dolphy's still a huge presence on the date. I'd forgotten what an interesting approach KD brought, and he fits in beautifully (much as part of me might have preferred Woody Shaw).

I couldn't help but wonder what Wayne Shorter might have brought to the date (instead of Joe Henderson). The overall feeling of the date seems like something Shorter would have fit into nicely, but maybe Hill's and Shorter's sensibilities aren't as compatible as I'm imagining.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Rooster_Ties

[Guy Berger]

I love Andrew's piano playing; I definitely wouldn't characterize him as playing "composer's piano". I mean, that intro to "Teeter Totter" on OUR THING!

I don't think that anyone said that Hill played "composer's piano". That's a figment of your imagination.

Leeway did say: "In similar vein, I find Hill's piano playing composer-ly (in the service of the composition), rather than virtuosic (in the service of the musician). Hill was a fine pianist, but the pianism was inextricably bound up with his composing."

To me, that sounds a lot like Ellington. I don't think that anyone would say that Duke Ellington played "composer's piano".

You're right, I misunderstood Leeway's argument(s). Apologies!

[.:.impossible]

Well, I'm here to say that I LOVE KD on this music. I have never imagined another trumpet on this date, and I have never made a parallel to OTL. Extremely different music from my perspective, outside of Tony Williams and Richard Davis in spots.

Y'all inspired me to take another listen though.

[.:.impossible]

I'd go so far as to say this album makes me wish KD made an OTL session in an alternate universe.

[awesome_welles]

I think POD is a great example of what in the film world is referred to as an "ensemble cast" with each player making significant contributions and no single player dominating the performance. Henderson and Dorham are great and Tony Williams and Richard Davis provide the supportive underpinning as well as taking a few great solos too.

But obviously what really elevates POD beyond the typical Blue Note session is the unique playing style and compositions of Andrew himself.

+1

This is one of the reasons that I enjoy this album so much. The personalities of the soloists are so different but complementary. KD here is a perfect foil for Dolphy and just as memorable. I love how throaty his tone gets when playing lower notes. Dolphy's solo on Dedication is a definite highlight of the album though for me.

One thing I've noticed though is that the ensemble playing is a little unrehearsed. For example the slight confusion (I think it's KD that fluffs his line) when they begin to play the head at the end of New Monastery or Joe Henderson's premature interjection during Richard Davis' solo on Refuge. Also I'm sure there are minor differences in the "out head" than they play on the "in" (I think I may have just made up those terms so hopefully you know what I mean!).

[skeith]

I love Andrew's piano playing; I definitely wouldn't characterize him as playing "composer's piano". I mean, that intro to "Teeter Totter" on OUR THING!

I don't think that anyone said that Hill played "composer's piano". That's a figment of your imagination.

Leeway did say: "In similar vein, I find Hill's piano playing composer-ly (in the service of the composition), rather than virtuosic (in the service of the musician). Hill was a fine pianist, but the pianism was inextricably bound up with his composing."

To me, that sounds a lot like Ellington. I don't think that anyone would say that Duke Ellington played "composer's piano".

You're right, I misunderstood Leeway's argument(s). Apologies!

I took Guy's point to be that one way to evaluate Andrew Hill's piano playing is to listen to his performances where he is the sideman and not the composer and I like Guy's example of Teeter Totter not just the fabulous intro but his solo on this track,

I do think that Andrew's work as a soloist on such players as Joe Henderson's albums show his piano playing to stand on its own outside of the context of his compositions.

I think POD is a great example of what in the film world is referred to as an "ensemble cast" with each player making significant contributions and no single player dominating the performance. Henderson and Dorham are great and Tony Williams and Richard Davis provide the supportive underpinning as well as taking a few great solos too.

But obviously what really elevates POD beyond the typical Blue Note session is the unique playing style and compositions of Andrew himself.

+1

This is one of the reasons that I enjoy this album so much. The personalities of the soloists are so different but complementary. KD here is a perfect foil for Dolphy and just as memorable. I love how throaty his tone gets when playing lower notes. Dolphy's solo on Dedication is a definite highlight of the album though for me.

One thing I've noticed though is that the ensemble playing is a little unrehearsed. For example the slight confusion (I think it's KD that fluffs his line) when they begin to play the head at the end of New Monastery or Joe Henderson's premature interjection during Richard Davis' solo on Refuge. Also I'm sure there are minor differences in the "out head" than they play on the "in" (I think I may have just made up those terms so hopefully you know what I mean!).

me too.....that Dolphy solo on Dedication I think I can play that one in my head.

[Mark Stryker]

Happy birthday today to Andrew Hill -- FWIW, pace the discussion above my favorite of all the early BN's is still "Black Fire." But you know what's amazing? "Black Fire," "Judgment," "Smokestack" and "Point of Departure" were all recorded in a 4-month stretch from Nov. '63 to March '64. I mean, Jesus Christ ... that's not just a career but immortality in four months.

[clifford_thornton]

I'd go so far as to say this album makes me wish KD made an OTL session in an alternate universe.

Trompeta Toccata?

Yes, HB AH!