Jazz Messengers Olympia 5/13/61

[bertrand]

A 2-CD set was released of this concert on the Europe 1 label, followed by a third volume.

This is obviously two concerts. Based on the overlapping songs between the two concerts (only two, surprisingly), they are clearly not in performance order.

Is there any way to find out the performance order?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

Wow - I just downloaded this to my iTunes and what do I hear? Wayne's solo on 'Paper Moon' includes extensive, unmistakeable quotes from Jackie McLean's 'Appointment in Ghana'. But the session this tune was from is only 8 months earlier - 9/1/60. So somehow Jackie's Bag was released before 5/13/61 and Wayne had time to absorb it? Did Jackie teach it to him before hand?

Wayne also quotes this tune on the Weather Report Live In Cologne album, on 'Two Lines', IIRC.

This blows my mind.

Bertrand.

[king ubu]

Bertrand, there were to 2 disc sets (that is in the Laserlight editions, the third on CD, I assume) ... this has been discussed elsewhere on this board a few weeks or months back.

First concert (first CD edition conver displayed):

http://www.allmusic.com/album/in-concert-olympia-may-13-1961-mw0000627538

Second concert (third CD edition cover displayed):

http://www.allmusic.com/album/olympia-may-13th-1961-second-concert-mw0000534608

The second generation of CDs were all single ones (as far as I know) and looked like this - Vol. 1 of first concert:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/live-olympia-5-13-61-pt-1-mw0000526637

I am puzzled though by this "Vol. 3", for which allmusic gives a tracklist that matches neither the "first concert" nor "second concert" 2CD sets:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/live-olympia-5-13-61-pt-3-mw0000528131

[bertrand]

The first and fourth links are the ones I have. A 2 CD set and a single disk. This is probably two entire concerts, but with the tracks jumbled. The later reissues seem to have reorganized the tunes, probably in concert order.

I will piece this together later and try to propose what I think was the concert order. The unidentified tune is 'Those Who Sit And Wait'. But it looks like you are suggesting this may not be possible to do...

I will also listen to the whole thing to see if Wayne qoutes any other Jackie tunes

Bertrand.

Edited March 17, 2014 by bertrand

[king ubu]

here's Bruyninckx' entry:

____________________________

Paris Jazz Concert- : same pers.

"Théâtre de l'Olympia", Paris, May 13, 1961

The summit (*) Europe n°1 (F)710373/374 (CD)

Yama (*) -

Close your eyes (*) -

Dat dere (*) -

Round about midnight (*,+) -

So tired (+) -

My funny Valentine (+) -

It's only a paper moon (+) -

Noise at the attic (+) -

Moanin' (+) -

I didn't know what time it was (+) -

Blues march (+) -

Night in Tunisia (*,+) -

Lost and found Laserlight 36128 (2-CD set)

Kozo's waltz -

unidentified title -

The theme -

Note : Entire concert also on RTE 1502.

(*) These titles on Laserlight 36128-2 and (+) these on Laserlight 36158-2 (2-CD set) entitled

"Paris Olympia 1961 (2nd concert)".

____________________________

And yes, you're probably right about the 2CD sets restoring ... what's on Vol. 3 (I just had a closer look, no more puzzlement) is the final cut of disc one of the first 2CD set/concert and the entirety of disc 2 - so if these 2CD sets restore the sequence, the single discs volumes had it all jumbled up! Vol. 1 above has the rest of disc one of the first set/concert and most of part 1 of the second 2CD set/concert, so I guess Vol. 2 has the final cut of that disc (It's Only a Papermoon) and all of disc 2 of the second set/concert (Noise in the Attic, Moanin', I Didn't Know What Time it Was, Blues March, Night in Tunisia).

[bertrand]

OK, it all makes sense now. The second issue of this material (labeled Concert 1 and Concert 2) is the correct concert order. The first issue I have contains the entire second concert in order, with some tracks from the first concert. The rest of the tracks from the first concert were on a third single CD which I remember came out later.

Concert 1:

The Summit 12:06 (a bit of the opening head is missing)

Yama 12:04

Close Your Eyes 12:22

Dat Dere 9:56

Lost And Found 16:34

'Round Midnight 12:15

Kozo's Waltz 17:53

Those Who Sit and Wait 10:33

A Night In Tunisia 11:40

The Theme 1:56

Concert 2:

'Round Midnight 11:00

So Tired 12:37

My Funny Valentine 6:58

It's Only A Paper Moon 14:39

Noise In The Attic 12:27

Moanin’ 10:41

I Didn't Know What Time It Was 5:47

Blues March 12:34

A Night In Tunisia 16:36

Amazing that only 2 tunes are repeated between the two concerts! And I don't know of any other live recordings of the two tunes from Witch Doctor. 'My Funny Valentine' is a trio track. Are there any other examples of trio tracks in the live Messengers repertoire from that era?

Also amazing that between the first and second issues of this material, they never identified the mystery tune...

Now I just have to reorganize the tracks in iTunes...

Bertrand.

Edited March 17, 2014 by bertrand

[John L]

I recall that this "volume 3" was only first issued in the 1990s. It always seemed a bit mysterious. A volume 3 of Thelonious Monk's 1965 Olympia concert was released at the exact same time on Trema. It was discovered later that somebody just took some tracks from Monk's 1961 concerts released on Riverside and doctored up the sound a bit.

[brownie]

For the sake of accuracy, this is what the cover of the original 2CD set looked like when it was released back in 1992 on the Trema-Europe 1 label

Cover and liner notes:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1873445

Volume 3 was released in 1999.

[bertrand]

Brownie, were you at this concert?

Bertrand.

[brownie]

Unfortunately not. Was on the other side of the Mediterranean where I did my best to counter the government's project of keeping Algeria French.

I remember trying to listen to the broadcast a few days later on the Europe 1 radio station but the sound signal (longwave AM) was pretty bad!