Folk singer/songwriter Pete Seeger has died aged 94

[medjuck]

Bob Bossin tells this story about Seeger;;

Sometime in the mid-80s, I went to Philadelphia for the annual get-together of the People’s Music Network, a loose confederacy of political songsters. I crashed at the home of one of the organizers along with a half-dozen others, one of them Pete. Naturally Pete Seeger was given the guest room, but he insisted on rolling out his sleeping bag on the floor of the office. So I got the bed. What the hell.

That same weekend, a few of us got our signals crossed and got to the venue an hour early. It was bitter cold. The building was locked, empty, and not in a good part of town. “It’s too cold to just stand around,” Pete suggested, “so why don’t we pick up some of this litter.” Which, for the next three-quarters of an hour, we did.

[JSngry]

Right now I'm listening to the 1957 Folkways album Pete Seeger Sings American Ballads.

Okay, I understand the reservations some folks have expressed about Seeger, especially JSngry's comments about PS being creepy/corny. Corny he certainly was - "Everybody sing, now!" But I'm not sure Jim is right about "agenda first, music second, always." That construct certainly showed up sometimes, but not always. Part of Seeger's agenda was that there was a body of great American music which should preserved as living music. Seeger is not unlike many other musicians: some of his output is corny and regrettable, but much of it is moving and beautiful. This album is haunting and excellent.

To be kind of corny myself, there's a quality that shines through Seeger's creepiness/corniness/political agenda. I hear/feel a warmth, a sincerity, (and to be really corny) a love that emanates from his music. Weighing all the factors, I have no problem with describing Pete Seeger as an American hero. So long, Mr. Seeger.

You're no doubt correct, but I could never get past the corny-creepiness. I never heard any music compelling enough to care. The whole "it takes a worried man to sing a worried song" thing...eh, yeah, right, I sing a worried song, therefore I am a worried man, well, ok, furrow your brow then, worried man, furrow your brow and let's get busy killing fascists with banjos and guitars and songs. BOOM!!! BANG!!! STRUM!!!!!

Here's how you kill a Fascist:

Everything else just throws them off balance for a little while. Get to the bank while you can!

That was Woody Guthrie that wrote "this machine kills fascists" on his guitar- not Pete Seeger.

Yes, I know. But everybody in that world, it seemed, reflected off of Guthrie, often quite ostentatiously, and even more often with less of everything else...except "righteousness".

[Jerry_L]

He was a bit of a dupe for Stalin and Mao, but he meant well. An icon of Folk Music. RIP Pete.

[Larry Kart]

I see that, even here, where one might expect better, the inevitable McCarthyist has crawled out from under his 60 year old rock. The funny part about that kind of dead-letter crap is that Pete himself was quite open about his past. He stated more than once that one of his few regrets was sticking with the Communists a little too long.

I assume that it was my post #10 above that you think is "McCarthyist" and "dead-letter crap." Sorry -- but I've long been fascinated by the ins and outs of the American Left of the Popular Front era and after, mostly from the point of view of how the actual participants thought about what they were doing/what was going on when certain "anomalies" (so to speak) arose -- like the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939, and the sudden shift in 1941 from an anti-war to a pro-interventionist stance when the Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union. For some insight into the human aspects of the American Left of that time and later, let me recommend two IMO brilliant semi-autobiographical novels by direct observers/participants -- Clancy Sigal's "Going Away" and Christina Stead's "I'm Dying Laughing." BTW Stead remained a committed Leftist to the end of her life, and Sigal remains one.

[Swinger]

A major loss! RIP! :/

[Larry Kart]

Sigal on one aspect of Seeger, the American Left, and the times I mentioned above (scroll down one):

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/29/pete-seeger-before-pete-seeger/

[J.A.W.]

This seems to be turning into a political topic...

[Larry Kart]

This seems to be turning into a political topic...

Given who Seeger was, that seems close to unavoidable.

[J.A.W.]

This seems to be turning into a political topic...

Given who Seeger was, that seems close to unavoidable.

I understand that, of course, but I was given the impression that political discussions are no longer allowed here since the removal of the dedicated forum.

[Larry Kart]

This seems to be turning into a political topic...

Given who Seeger was, that seems close to unavoidable.

I understand that, of course, but I was given the impression that political discussions are no longer allowed here since the removal of the dedicated forum.

I know, but let's try to be commonsensical in this case -- both those who are praising Seeger here and those who have doubts are for the most part acknowledging that the man's music and its impact were significantly political (as you say). I'd say pull the shades down when the discussion is no longer directly linked to what Seeger himself did or didn't do. Seems to me that the post from Clancy Sigal that I linked to in #31 above fits and is interesting to boot, especially because it comes from a man who essentially admires Seeger. If others disagree, I'll get rid of it.

[Big Beat Steve]

Besides, it is a discussion about HISTORICAL events/actions/statements that are/were of a political nature.

[J.A.W.]

Besides, it is a discussion about HISTORICAL events/actions/statements that are/were of a political nature.

I didn't know political discussions are allowed as long as they are about historical events/actions/statements of a political nature. Interesting. And where does one draw the time line? Seriously, I think distinctions like those are highly arbitrary and difficult if not impossible to maintain.

[J.A.W.]

This seems to be turning into a political topic...

Given who Seeger was, that seems close to unavoidable.

I understand that, of course, but I was given the impression that political discussions are no longer allowed here since the removal of the dedicated forum.

I know, but let's try to be commonsensical in this case -- both those who are praising Seeger here and those who have doubts are for the most part acknowledging that the man's music and its impact were significantly political (as you say). I'd say pull the shades down when the discussion is no longer directly linked to what Seeger himself did or didn't do.

What if people are getting into a political fight about what he himself did or didn't say/do? I don't see the difference.

[Big Beat Steve]

Do you really feel that comfortable in unyieldingly riding a principle to death instead of letting a modicum of common sense prevail, as suggested by Larry Kart?? My my ...

Whatever political topics come up here in THIS thread - they are part of discussing the life (and times - yes!) of the (deceased) person in question and of evaluating the life of said person and with THIS person in particular they cannot be separated from the person and his artistic opus IMO.

As for where to draw a line - would discussing the outspokenness of this or that musician against, say, Southern racism, or against Apartheid (in another RIP thread, for example) within such a thread be off limits too (now don't tell me these aren't highly political topics)?

Please - RELAX!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[J.A.W.]

Do you really feel that comfortable in unyieldingly riding a principle to death instead of letting a modicum of common sense prevail, as suggested by Larry Kart?? My my ...

I was asking a simple question about the current "no politics" criteria on this board, in a thread I posted. If you see it as "unyieldingly riding a principle", fine; I couldn't care less about that and neither about your implicit and rather insulting suggestion about my apparent lack of common sense. I'll ignore your future posts.

[Big Beat Steve]

See ...

If it had only been about the current "no politics" criteria then why could Larry Kart's sensible explanation (IMHO) not have been accepted as such?

After all this still is quite an innocent discussion (IMHO again) compared to how REALLY political discussions could evolve. So why not just have left it at that?

Pete Seeger was a political person and to appraise his life the political involvement of his invariably would come up and be discussed. So what?

BTW, @Larry Kart: Thanks for that link above on "Pete Seeger before Pete Seeger". Highly interesting. In fact this "Songs for John Doe" album also was discussed in the liner notes to the oft-mentioned Keynote box reissued by Fresh Sound recently as this album was one of the first major releases by Keynote founder Eric Bernay on his Almanac label at the time Keynote was in its infancy. Further Almanac singers releases were on Keynote, BTW.

As for "Overnight neither for love nor money could you find a trace of John Doe in any radical book or record store"

in the link above, the liner notes to the Keynote box state that "Bernay quickly pulled "Songs for John Doe" from distribution and reportedly destroyed the remaining inventory to avoid possible repercussions". So this explains that, oned might guess ...

Edited January 29, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Al in NYC]

This seems to be turning into a political topic...

I agree that any lengthy discussion of Pete Seeger is unlikely to be able to wholly avoid the political and historical backdrop to his work and life. Oddly though, this thread only took this turn because Larry seems oddly hung up on Pete's original opposition to American entry into WWII way back in the late 1930s and very early '40s.

Part of what makes this a rather strange focus for looking back on Seeger's life is that a majority of Americans, of pretty much every political persuasion, were against American entry into the war right up to the day of Pearl Harbor. Beyond that is the fact that, as Larry himself notes, Seeger changed his mind on this issue months before December 7 1941, and, of course, the fact that he served in the Army during the war.

On the other hand, the brief Clancy Sigal article about the John Doe album that Larry linked does provide some quite interesting musical and historical background for that period in the work of Pete Seeger and the Almanac Singers and the American left. But it hardly amounts to anything beyond that, and certainly not anything damning or that wasn't already known.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Al in NYC

[Scott Dolan]

Al!!! What's up, brother?!

Good to see you around. Sorry you never made it over to jazztalk.

Hope you are well.

*edit*

Love the avatar! That sums you up perfectly, doesn't it?

Edited January 29, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[Al in NYC]

Nice to see you too Scott. I'm still hanging in there. Due to certain life events I don't have all the time I used to to engage in random bulletin board argumentation, but I do have a look in here occasionally, and I have browsed a time or two over at your place too.

I love that picture of you that is your avatar over there. Despite the fact that it's only a fair album, my avatar here is a little bit more personal to me than just my own geographic history, since Thad was a friend of my father's, and I think you know my family's history with Elvin.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled RIP thread (and rather tortured parsing of what exactly constitutes political discussion).

[GA Russell]

The Daily Beast remembers Pete Seeger here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/29/the-death-of-stalin-s-songbird0.html

[Al in NYC]

The Daily Beast remembers Pete Seeger here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/29/the-death-of-stalin-s-songbird0.html

Well, I apologize for calling Larry a McCarthyist earlier. This is a true McCarthyist hit piece. I figured it wouldn't take long...

[Larry Kart]

No problem.

[Teasing the Korean]

Couldn't believe what they were saying about Pete on AM talk radio after he died. Or maybe I could believe it, given the source.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Teasing the Korean

[paul secor]

Bob Bossin tells this story about Seeger;;

Sometime in the mid-80s, I went to Philadelphia for the annual get-together of the People’s Music Network, a loose confederacy of political songsters. I crashed at the home of one of the organizers along with a half-dozen others, one of them Pete. Naturally Pete Seeger was given the guest room, but he insisted on rolling out his sleeping bag on the floor of the office. So I got the bed. What the hell.

That same weekend, a few of us got our signals crossed and got to the venue an hour early. It was bitter cold. The building was locked, empty, and not in a good part of town. “It’s too cold to just stand around,” Pete suggested, “so why don’t we pick up some of this litter.” Which, for the next three-quarters of an hour, we did.

I told this story to a friend of mine and he started laughing. He then told me a story about his parents, who were contemporaries of and who knew Pete Seeger. Some years ago, they were driving in Beacon, N.Y. (where Pete Seeger lived) and needed directions. They stopped and asked a man walking by. He said he didn't know, but said, "Why don't you ask that guy over there", pointing to someone in the distance in the middle of a park. They drove up and it turned out to be Pete Seeger picking up trash in the park.

[JSngry]

Did Pete Seeger drive a Volvo?