Mingus Workshops 1964-65

[golfcrazy1984]

Got mine today. The sound on the Town Hall Concert surprised me; the arco bass just sounds amazing. No Mingus fan will be disappointed with this set.

Mine is #849. I pre-ordered the minute I could.

Just listened to disk 1 (Town Hall Concert part 1) and the sound is GREAT! You can hear the hall, all of the instruments, and yes the bass sounds amazing. The piano is great as well!!!!!!!!!! The music is very involving and swinging. GREAT BAND.

[skeith]

I am strongly considered this box set, but have some questions. First, I have a lot of cds that document this band including: The Town Hall Concert (OJC) which is part of this set,The Great Concert of Charles Mingus, Cornell 1964, a France's Concert import cd entitled "Meditations". While I realize that only the Town Hall Concert would be what I already own, I am wondering if you know whether the other tracks from this concert are on the same high level as the two tracks on Town Hall Concert (OJC) and whether the other concerts are on par with the cds I have mentioned above. The other issue being particuarly with respect to the Town Hall concert as to whether the sound is improved (it's not bad on the OJC and every instrument is clearly heard, it is just that the sound is sort of low fi or "boxy" if that is the right word.)

[felser]

The Town Hall material (and the Minneapolis material) sounds GREAT and the majority of the music is top-notch (the 1965 Monterey stuff is not up to standard, but is interesting nonetheless) . And you get a lot of Charles McPherson that you do not already own. Is this consistently at the level of the Town Hall Concert original release, and of the "Great Concert"? No,not really. What is? Is it plenty close enough to justify the purchase if you like those? Absolutely.

[jazzbo]

The Amsterdam material sounds better than the French cds I have of this concert, and I'm confident that everything here sounds just as good as it could in Redbook. I think any Mingus nut would just revel in this set.

[skeith]

Thanks for your helpful comments Lon, Felser and Jazz Nut.

[golfcrazy1984]

The Town Hall material (and the Minneapolis material) sounds GREAT and the majority of the music is top-notch (the 1965 Monterey stuff is not up to standard, but is interesting nonetheless) . And you get a lot of Charles McPherson that you do not already own. Is this consistently at the level of the Town Hall Concert original release, and of the "Great Concert"? No,not really. What is? Is it plenty close enough to justify the purchase if you like those? Absolutely.

Felser, what you said above are my thoughts exactly as well. skeith, you are welcome!!!

[kh1958]

I wish Mosaic would release a set of the unreleased Columbia Ronnie Scotts Mingus recordings next. I wonder how many sets they recorded?

[Clunky]

As I wait for my set to arrive , can anyone explain why other European '64 dates weren't included. I know these have been extensively booted. Was it for that reason or due to who originally produced the shows/recordings. Are all those concerts included in set originally produced by/for Mingus ? I'm not especially bothered by their non inclusion merely curious.

[skeith]

I placed my order today ... so I don't know whether to thank you guys or not.

[jazzbo]

Adrian, it's the latter, these are all recordings that were released or authorized by either the Jazz Workshop label that Charles started and sort of put Sue in charge of, or by a production sort of set-up Sue later started called East Coasting. For the most part Sue had these source tapes in hand it seems, which is not the case I bet with the other European recordings.

I'm not sure about the legal claim that Sue may have of the other recordings from this European tour. I would imagine that she has a clear claim and it's possible that we'll see more released "officially" in the future. We can hope.

[ElginThompson]

I own most, if not all, of the released output from Mingus and still find the 30 min. 'Fables of Faubus' (on Disc 4) even beyond Mingus' usual high level (including Great Concert). This 'Fables' includes many choice quotes, but given the context of the piece, the subtlety drawn from "Lift Every Voice and Sing' (the Black National Anthem) vs 'Yankee Doodle Dandy' is masterful.

[king ubu]

I'm somewhat amazed about the bashing of "Mingus at Monterey". To me, the long piece with the expanded band is prime Mingus and good enough to make me held the whole album in high esteem!

[gslade]

Well my set arrived last night. The Mosaic box crushed and the booklet crunched (shipping container not damaged). Fortunately the discs remain intact and I can start listening to the Music! I do hope that Sue has more recordings from the European Tours.

[felser]

I'm somewhat amazed about the bashing of "Mingus at Monterey". To me, the long piece with the expanded band is prime Mingus and good enough to make me held the whole album in high esteem!

Remember there are two Monterey sets in the box. Totally agree with you about the 1964 Monterey performance, the "Meditations on Integration" from that is epic. OTOH, the 1965 Monterey performance is a mess, and Mingus himself seems to have known that, cutting it off short.

[king ubu]

I'm somewhat amazed about the bashing of "Mingus at Monterey". To me, the long piece with the expanded band is prime Mingus and good enough to make me held the whole album in high esteem!

Remember there are two Monterey sets in the box. Totally agree with you about the 1964 Monterey performance, the "Meditations on Integration" from that is epic. OTOH, the 1965 Monterey performance is a mess, and Mingus himself seems to have known that, cutting it off short.

Oh, I indeed forgot about that!

All I heard of that 1965 Monterey set is the track on that Malpaso 3CD-set (which actually I got for that one track).

Edited November 18, 2012 by king ubu

[JETman]

I'm somewhat amazed about the bashing of "Mingus at Monterey". To me, the long piece with the expanded band is prime Mingus and good enough to make me held the whole album in high esteem!

Remember there are two Monterey sets in the box. Totally agree with you about the 1964 Monterey performance, the "Meditations on Integration" from that is epic. OTOH, the 1965 Monterey performance is a mess, and Mingus himself seems to have known that, cutting it off short.

If you read the liners, Mingus' set was cut short because John Handy's famous (and documented) one went overtime. When someone yelled that Mingus should end his portion of the concert, he directed his band to walk off playing "When the Saints Come Marching In". Mingus had high hopes for the show, and was pissed that he had to cut it short.

[king ubu]

Thanks, didn't know that .... can't read the liners as I don't have the box yet but plan to get it, eventually.

[jazzbo]

Well my set arrived last night. The Mosaic box crushed and the booklet crunched (shipping container not damaged). Fortunately the discs remain intact and I can start listening to the Music! I do hope that Sue has more recordings from the European Tours.

Very sorry to hear about the damaged box. I'm sure Mosaic will send you a replacement.

[felser]

I'm somewhat amazed about the bashing of "Mingus at Monterey". To me, the long piece with the expanded band is prime Mingus and good enough to make me held the whole album in high esteem!

Remember there are two Monterey sets in the box. Totally agree with you about the 1964 Monterey performance, the "Meditations on Integration" from that is epic. OTOH, the 1965 Monterey performance is a mess, and Mingus himself seems to have known that, cutting it off short.

If you read the liners, Mingus' set was cut short because John Handy's famous (and documented) one went overtime. When someone yelled that Mingus should end his portion of the concert, he directed his band to walk off playing "When the Saints Come Marching In". Mingus had high hopes for the show, and was pissed that he had to cut it short.

Thx for the insight. No, have not had opportunity to read the liner notes, which is the case for most of my collection. That Handy set was/is spectacular. I did an AOTW of it here a few years ago, and was shocked at how little love it got.

Edited November 19, 2012 by felser

[B. Goren.]

John, I totally agree with you about the Handy set.

[soulpope]

John, I totally agree with you about the Handy set.

Second that, especially bassist Don Thompson is outstanding

[JSngry]

Set got here last week, been taking it slow, like one disc a day, several listens per. Nothing to add other than a similar set covering the entire '64 European tour would be a logistical nightmare, but a musical godsend, so...c'mon god, let's go go gettem gettem UH UH!

How many days rest does god need between starts, though? Especially after throwing a gem like this current one.

[kh1958]

I really enjoyed the additional material from the 1964 Town Hall concert and from the 1965 "My Favorite Quintet" concert. In fact, the additional 1965 material is more interesting than the original album. And short as it is, the 1965 Monterey brass band performance is also great to have in its entirety.

And then there is the comment in the booklet that Sue Mingus has 40 reels of Mingus recordings.

Edited November 26, 2012 by kh1958

[JSngry]

And short as it is, the 1965 Monterey brass band performance is also great to have in its entirety.

Yes, this is my first time hearing this material, and from all the past reviews of the gig, I was expecting something of a disspirited mess. It's anything but, and upon initial listenings seems to be a "deeper" Mingus vibe than the previous year's celebrated performance. Definitely more "brooding", maybe that's just a factor of the instrumentation. Anyway, very happy to hear this, and good to have it to now play in conjunction with Music Written for...

[ElginThompson]

And short as it is, the 1965 Monterey brass band performance is also great to have in its entirety.

Yes, this is my first time hearing this material, and from all the past reviews of the gig, I was expecting something of a disspirited mess. It's anything but, and upon initial listenings seems to be a "deeper" Mingus vibe than the previous year's celebrated performance. Definitely more "brooding", maybe that's just a factor of the instrumentation. Anyway, very happy to hear this, and good to have it to now play in conjunction with Music Written for...

Well said.