interval recognition

[page]

Hi all,
i'm working on my ear training and I'm making a list of songs to help me remember the intervals. I've found some tunes I am familar with for most intervals. There are a few intervals though that give a bit of trouble and I'd like to ask your help in what has helped you while you were learning.

The intervals I have the most trouble with are
- augmented 4th (especially descending) could anyone recommend some songs for this one. For ascending I have "Maria" and "The Simpsons" but I'd be happy with some more titles.
- minor 7th, ascending and descending, so far I have "Somewhere" (Westside Story) for ascending and "Watermelon Man". Some more titles would come in handy.
- Major 7th (especially descending, I only found "I love you" by Cole Porter 'till now.) For ascending I have "Ceora" and "Don't know why" (Norah Jones), more titles are welcome.
I'd prefer songs with vocals since I find it easier to remember the lyrics along with the intervals, but any names of tunes you did find helpful are welcome.

I'd be happy to post the list I've decided on as soon as I have the tunes with accompanying intervals in my head should anyone be interested.

Thank you for your time reading.
Kind regards, page

Edited January 14, 2014 by page

[Chuck Nessa]

Always stay one car length back for each 10 miles per hour in order to reach your destination safely.

[paul secor]

Perhaps this thread should be in the Musician's Forum - though more people will probably look at it here.

I'm not a musician, so I can't offer any advice. Hope you receive some helpful responses.

[Chuck Nessa]

I guess I should have included a smiley.

[paul secor]

I realized you were joking. Humor is always good. Just hoped that Page would receive the advice she asked for (along with some humor).

[JSngry]

Descending Augmented 4th/flatted 5th = Blue Seven

[danasgoodstuff]

Hi all,

i'm working on my ear training and I'm making a list of songs to help me remember the intervals. I've found some tunes I am familar with for most intervals. There are a few intervals though that give a bit of trouble and I'd like to ask your help in what has helped you while you were learning.

The intervals I have the most trouble with are

- augmented 4th (especially descending) could anyone recommend some songs for this one. For ascending I have "Maria" and "The Simpsons" but I'd be happy with some more titles.

- minor 7th, ascending and descending, so far I have "Somewhere" (Westside Story) for ascending and "Watermelon Man". Some more titles would come in handy.

- Major 7th (especially descending, I only found "I love you" by Cole Porter 'till now.) For ascending I have "Ceora" and "Don't know why" (Norah Jones), more titles are welcome.

I'd prefer songs with vocals since I find it easier to remember the lyrics along with the intervals, but any names of tunes you did find helpful are welcome.

I'd be happy to post the list I've decided on as soon as I have the tunes with accompanying intervals in my head should anyone be interested.

Thank you for your time reading.

Kind regards, page

I've got a list of examples for all these at home that I got from an ear-training book, I'll try to remember to find it and see what I can come up with.

[page]

Always stay one car length back for each 10 miles per hour in order to reach your destination safely.

Thanks for the tip. I'd better take a train then. The roads are too crowded for that even at the country side. We have a small country.

Perhaps this thread should be in the Musician's Forum - though more people will probably look at it here.

I'm not a musician, so I can't offer any advice. Hope you receive some helpful responses.

Thank you. Yes, I realized too late that I had posted in the wrong section. Ah, it already has been moved. Thank you!

Edited January 15, 2014 by page

[page]

Descending Augmented 4th/flatted 5th = Blue Seven

Thank you JSngry. I did notice this tune by Rollins. I don't think it is played often at sessions around here and I'm not familiar with it yet. I did notice it on a list and listened to it and since there was a long bass intro I'll have to look where the interval is exactly. I'll try to memorize the melody.

[page]

I've got a list of examples for all these at home that I got from an ear-training book, I'll try to remember to find it and see what I can come up with.

That would be great, thanks Dana! Last night in bed I was singing them in my head and figured I might have to look at the tunes I wrote myself too since those are in my head anyway. One of them has a ascending minor 6th (same as Black Orpheus) and I was using that one all ready.

I'll post my list too, it seems there are less tunes for descending intervals on existing lists.

[JSngry]

Descending Augmented 4th/flatted 5th = Blue Seven

Thank you JSngry. I did notice this tune by Rollins. I don't think it is played often at sessions around here and I'm not familiar with it yet. I did notice it on a list and listened to it and since there was a long bass intro I'll have to look where the interval is exactly. I'll try to memorize the melody.

It's just the first two notes of the head. The third of the key dropping down to the flat (i.e. - "blue") 7th. In Bb, it's a D down to an Ab

The interesting part of the tune, though, is that after that, there's a phrase that runs between that flat 7th and the flatted fifth of the chord (Ab-E-F-G-Ab-E...I spell it E, which makes it a #4, but I'm a tenor player, and I'd really rahter not think about Fb , the sound is of a flatted fifth, that' what matters), an interval of a major third, but resulting in the sound of a flatted fifth. So if you want to get the sound of the interval of the flatted fifth, you use the first two notes of the melody. But if you want the sound of the flatted fifth note, you use a different note of the song, the note the phrase resolves to.

I would humbly suggest learning both the sound of the intervals, and the sound of the notes within the chords, so you can hit them cold if need be., go right to that flatted fifth or #9.

[Rooster_Ties]

Looking up to confirm that the original Star Trek theme was a m7 (and not M7), I stumbled on the following - which may be helpful...

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~bhammel/theory/resources/macgamut_theory/songs_interval_recognize.html

http://music.tutsplus.com/articles/boot-camp-for-your-ear-detecting-intervals-with-song-associations--audio-4118

http://www.earmaster.com/products/free-tool/interval-song-chart-generator.html

The last one has Youtube links to all the examples, and appears to even let you build a custom page with just the specific examples you select.

[danasgoodstuff]

I've got a list of examples for all these at home that I got from an ear-training book, I'll try to remember to find it and see what I can come up with.

That would be great, thanks Dana! Last night in bed I was singing them in my head and figured I might have to look at the tunes I wrote myself too since those are in my head anyway. One of them has a ascending minor 6th (same as Black Orpheus) and I was using that one all ready.

I'll post my list too, it seems there are less tunes for descending intervals on existing lists.

Busy day, hopefully tomorrow.

[page]

Descending Augmented 4th/flatted 5th = Blue Seven

Thank you JSngry. I did notice this tune by Rollins. I don't think it is played often at sessions around here and I'm not familiar with it yet. I did notice it on a list and listened to it and since there was a long bass intro I'll have to look where the interval is exactly. I'll try to memorize the melody.

It's just the first two notes of the head. The third of the key dropping down to the flat (i.e. - "blue") 7th. In Bb, it's a D down to an Ab

The interesting part of the tune, though, is that after that, there's a phrase that runs between that flat 7th and the flatted fifth of the chord (Ab-E-F-G-Ab-E...I spell it E, which makes it a #4, but I'm a tenor player, and I'd really rahter not think about Fb , the sound is of a flatted fifth, that' what matters), an interval of a major third, but resulting in the sound of a flatted fifth. So if you want to get the sound of the interval of the flatted fifth, you use the first two notes of the melody. But if you want the sound of the flatted fifth note, you use a different note of the song, the note the phrase resolves to.

I would humbly suggest learning both the sound of the intervals, and the sound of the notes within the chords, so you can hit them cold if need be., go right to that flatted fifth or #9.

Thank you. I'not sure I fully understand what you mean. Sorry, I'm a non- native English speaker and also still learning about chords and music theory. Even though I had piano lessons for some years as a child, the teacher didn't teach me about chords themselves, to understand them. I'll have to study the tune to understand what you mean. I need to hear a reference note or chord to sing since I don't have absolute pitch. If you mean you can train to know where a note is in reference to another one, I know about that. When I was singer with this big band, there was a tune with a modulation without the key changing in the score for the band. That was a challenge since the band stayed in the same key while I technically had to do the modulation on my own. I first asked the help of the pianist to help me through the passage, but studied on getting it/ the exact sound in my memory. There is a name for that, but I can't come up with it now. One time at a concert, the pianist either forgot about the passage or I just couldn't hear him, so I had to do it on my own but since I had studied it so often I could. When I sing my own songs accapella at home and later check for the key, I'm usually in the right one. So there is something like an auditive memory. In the song, are you talking about an Ab chord or an E chord? Since I don't know the song, I'll have to look for the leadsheet to see where you mean exactly and what note you are referring to. It is probably in the RB, is it not?

Looking up to confirm that the original Star Trek theme was a m7 (and not M7), I stumbled on the following - which may be helpful...

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~bhammel/theory/resources/macgamut_theory/songs_interval_recognize.html

http://music.tutsplus.com/articles/boot-camp-for-your-ear-detecting-intervals-with-song-associations--audio-4118

http://www.earmaster.com/products/free-tool/interval-song-chart-generator.html

The last one has Youtube links to all the examples, and appears to even let you build a custom page with just the specific examples you select.

Thanks for these. I did run into a few lists myself. With Star Trek you mean the series or the movies? I did watch the series as a kid but never saw the movies. I'm not much into SF I'm afraid. I'll check which tunes for familiar tunes. I don't know about U.S. series most of the time and it is indeed the best idea to make your own list with familair tunes, that was my plan indeed.

I've got a list of examples for all these at home that I got from an ear-training book, I'll try to remember to find it and see what I can come up with.

That would be great, thanks Dana! Last night in bed I was singing them in my head and figured I might have to look at the tunes I wrote myself too since those are in my head anyway. One of them has a ascending minor 6th (same as Black Orpheus) and I was using that one all ready.

I'll post my list too, it seems there are less tunes for descending intervals on existing lists.

Busy day, hopefully tomorrow.

Take your time. I can't learn each interval in one day anyway, I need time to practise. So I've started on the small intervals to listen to and recognize with some ear training program.

Thanks, all of you. I'm really happy with your help!

Kind regards, page

Edited January 16, 2014 by page

[TedR]

I am continuously amazed by the expertise among the members here.

[JSngry]

Descending Augmented 4th/flatted 5th = Blue Seven

Thank you JSngry. I did notice this tune by Rollins. I don't think it is played often at sessions around here and I'm not familiar with it yet. I did notice it on a list and listened to it and since there was a long bass intro I'll have to look where the interval is exactly. I'll try to memorize the melody.

It's just the first two notes of the head. The third of the key dropping down to the flat (i.e. - "blue") 7th. In Bb, it's a D down to an Ab

The interesting part of the tune, though, is that after that, there's a phrase that runs between that flat 7th and the flatted fifth of the chord (Ab-E-F-G-Ab-E...I spell it E, which makes it a #4, but I'm a tenor player, and I'd really rahter not think about Fb , the sound is of a flatted fifth, that' what matters), an interval of a major third, but resulting in the sound of a flatted fifth. So if you want to get the sound of the interval of the flatted fifth, you use the first two notes of the melody. But if you want the sound of the flatted fifth note, you use a different note of the song, the note the phrase resolves to.

I would humbly suggest learning both the sound of the intervals, and the sound of the notes within the chords, so you can hit them cold if need be., go right to that flatted fifth or #9.

Thank you. I'not sure I fully understand what you mean. Sorry, I'm a non- native English speaker and also still learning about chords and music theory. Even though I had piano lessons for some years as a child, the teacher didn't teach me about chords themselves, to understand them. I'll have to study the tune to understand what you mean. I need to hear a reference note or chord to sing since I don't have absolute pitch. If you mean you can train to know where a note is in reference to another one, I know about that. When I was singer with this big band, there was a tune with a modulation without the key changing in the score for the band. That was a challenge since the band stayed in the same key while I technically had to do the modulation on my own. I first asked the help of the pianist to help me through the passage, but studied on getting it/ the exact sound in my memory. There is a name for that, but I can't come up with it now. One time at a concert, the pianist either forgot about the passage or I just couldn't hear him, so I had to do it on my own but since I had studied it so often I could. When I sing my own songs accapella at home and later check for the key, I'm usually in the right one. So there is something like an auditive memory. In the song, are you talking about an Ab chord or an E chord? Since I don't know the song, I'll have to look for the leadsheet to see where you mean exactly and what note you are referring to. It is probably in the RB, is it not?

"Blue Seven" itself is actually a blues in Bb! So the flatted-5th interval comes through the 3rd & flatted 7th of a Bb7 chord.

Here's a clip, just listen to the first four bars of Sonny's opening melody, that's what I'm talking about above.

What I mean about being able to know both the sound of the interval of the note is this - let's say you've got a chart, and the line goes from an E to a Bb. You'll look at that, say, hey, that's a flatted fifth interval, this is what that sounds like. Depending on what chord is underneath those notes, their relation to the chord could be any number of things, but that interval will always sound the same isolated from the chord, so if a composer or arranger is going for something other than straight diatonic harmony, you need not be flustered, just look at the interval, recognize it, execute it, and worry about the math later!

Now, what I mean about recognizing the note itself relative to the chord is this - same gig, same writer, and you got a chart that 's in G major, and your first note is a Db over a G Maj 7 chord. Well, ok, that Db is the flatted 5th of the G chord, so you know what that sounds like too, just hit it, and go to the next one. Same is true of any other altered note of a basic chord, if you know the sounds of, say, a #9 of a chord, you can just lean into it w/o necessarily needing some intervallic-leap reference to hit it. Just nail it by itself.

Granted, you don't get all that much of this altered chord tones thing in singing standards, but you do in more "modern" jazz originals, and if you ever get called on to do part singing, especially a modern setting of any kind, there will be interior parts that have notes not suggested by the key signature! To that end, never accept an offer or a challenge to sing the 2nd tenor part of any Thad Jones cahrt unless and until you feel confident that you can sight-sing any note over any chord without any needing to reference the underlying harmonies!

But sometimes those weird intervals do show up in standards. One of my favorite examples is "I Got It Bad" - the tune starts on a b5 (and that's a good way to learn the sound of a b5 - just hit the first note of that melody and hoooooold it over the chord), then quickly resolves up to the regular 5th, only to immediately leap upwards an interval of a major 9th to the 6th (or 13th, if you prefer) of the chord, and then finally takes a step down to land on the 5th. It's only four notes, but what a journey those four notes take! Listen to how different singers tackle those first four notes - not all of them want to deal with it!

Anyway, I know this is a lot of math, and once it's all said and done, you want to internalize the math and just deal with the music, the sound. And trust me - get rid of thinking about the math as soon a you're able/comfortable enough to do so. But you will want to have it handy, jut in case, and yes, it gets kinda spider-webbish sometimes, and yes, definitely, it's not something to learn all at once, or even in a few days/months/years. It's a lifetime of refinement, and sometimes your ears/voice might find a refresher to be...refreshing!

Just keep at it. Let what makes sense now give you confidence to keep moving ahead, and let what doesn't make sense now give you challenge to do the same. That's the real object of the game!

[sgcim]

Frank Strozier has a nice song that he plays on flute from the LP "Remember Me" called Neicy that begins on an ascending b5 interval.

The song "Isn't It Romantic" has a tricky descending major 7th interval in the last bar of the first ending that goes from the sixth in the key to the b7

"When I Fall in Love" has an ascending maj7th interval going from the first bar of the 2nd ending to the second bar.

"There'll Never be Another You" has another ascending maj7th on the words 'how can they come true" at the end.

"The Song Is You" has an ascending maj7 in the fifth bar of the bridge.

"Misty" has an ascending maj7 on the first two notes of the second bar.

"Invitation" has an ascending maj7th followed by a descending 4th on the second third and fourth notes, a pattern repeated throughout the song up a minor 3rd.

"I'll Never Smile Again" has a descending minor seventh on the words 'smile again' repeatedly throughout the song

[page]

"Blue Seven" itself is actually a blues in Bb! So the flatted-5th interval comes through the 3rd & flatted 7th of a Bb7 chord.

Here's a clip, just listen to the first four bars of Sonny's opening melody, that's what I'm talking about above.

What I mean about being able to know both the sound of the interval of the note is this - let's say you've got a chart, and the line goes from an E to a Bb. You'll look at that, say, hey, that's a flatted fifth interval, this is what that sounds like. Depending on what chord is underneath those notes, their relation to the chord could be any number of things, but that interval will always sound the same isolated from the chord, so if a composer or arranger is going for something other than straight diatonic harmony, you need not be flustered, just look at the interval, recognize it, execute it, and worry about the math later!

Now, what I mean about recognizing the note itself relative to the chord is this - same gig, same writer, and you got a chart that 's in G major, and your first note is a Db over a G Maj 7 chord. Well, ok, that Db is the flatted 5th of the G chord, so you know what that sounds like too, just hit it, and go to the next one. Same is true of any other altered note of a basic chord, if you know the sounds of, say, a #9 of a chord, you can just lean into it w/o necessarily needing some intervallic-leap reference to hit it. Just nail it by itself.

Granted, you don't get all that much of this altered chord tones thing in singing standards, but you do in more "modern" jazz originals, and if you ever get called on to do part singing, especially a modern setting of any kind, there will be interior parts that have notes not suggested by the key signature! To that end, never accept an offer or a challenge to sing the 2nd tenor part of any Thad Jones cahrt unless and until you feel confident that you can sight-sing any note over any chord without any needing to reference the underlying harmonies!

But sometimes those weird intervals do show up in standards. One of my favorite examples is "I Got It Bad" - the tune starts on a b5 (and that's a good way to learn the sound of a b5 - just hit the first note of that melody and hoooooold it over the chord), then quickly resolves up to the regular 5th, only to immediately leap upwards an interval of a major 9th to the 6th (or 13th, if you prefer) of the chord, and then finally takes a step down to land on the 5th. It's only four notes, but what a journey those four notes take! Listen to how different singers tackle those first four notes - not all of them want to deal with it!

Anyway, I know this is a lot of math, and once it's all said and done, you want to internalize the math and just deal with the music, the sound. And trust me - get rid of thinking about the math as soon a you're able/comfortable enough to do so. But you will want to have it handy, jut in case, and yes, it gets kinda spider-webbish sometimes, and yes, definitely, it's not something to learn all at once, or even in a few days/months/years. It's a lifetime of refinement, and sometimes your ears/voice might find a refresher to be...refreshing!

Just keep at it. Let what makes sense now give you confidence to keep moving ahead, and let what doesn't make sense now give you challenge to do the same. That's the real object of the game!

Thank you Jsngry, for your explanation. It is a bit much to comprehend for me right now. I'll first focus on recognizing the intervals and will get back to looking into this more and how to approach getting it in my system. I have sung parts and have been asked to do so, yes. I did study my parts by writing the parts in Sibelius and then learning by ear and also while knowing a song already, trusting my ear and feeling. I know about altered chords and have noticed them in some tunes but like I've said I'm just getting started learning theory so I haven't mastered all of this yet in understanding and using it to my advantage. I do plan to, so thanks again for your help.

I'll listen to Blue 7 again and will try to find the chart to understand better.

[page]

Frank Strozier has a nice song that he plays on flute from the LP "Remember Me" called Neicy that begins on an ascending b5 interval.

The song "Isn't It Romantic" has a tricky descending major 7th interval in the last bar of the first ending that goes from the sixth in the key to the b7

"When I Fall in Love" has an ascending maj7th interval going from the first bar of the 2nd ending to the second bar.

"There'll Never be Another You" has another ascending maj7th on the words 'how can they come true" at the end.

"The Song Is You" has an ascending maj7 in the fifth bar of the bridge.

"Misty" has an ascending maj7 on the first two notes of the second bar.

"Invitation" has an ascending maj7th followed by a descending 4th on the second third and fourth notes, a pattern repeated throughout the song up a minor 3rd.

"I'll Never Smile Again" has a descending minor seventh on the words 'smile again' repeatedly throughout the song

Thank you sgcim, some familiar titles among those, so I'll look into the measures you are referring to.

[king ubu]

enjoying this thread a lot ... makes me want to pick up my saxophones again, too!

here's a version akin to my first encounter with "Invitation" - very good one as the melody sticks easily once you've heard it:

[danasgoodstuff]

Hi all,

i'm working on my ear training and I'm making a list of songs to help me remember the intervals. I've found some tunes I am familar with for most intervals. There are a few intervals though that give a bit of trouble and I'd like to ask your help in what has helped you while you were learning.

The intervals I have the most trouble with are

- augmented 4th (especially descending) could anyone recommend some songs for this one. For ascending I have "Maria" and "The Simpsons" but I'd be happy with some more titles.

- minor 7th, ascending and descending, so far I have "Somewhere" (Westside Story) for ascending and "Watermelon Man". Some more titles would come in handy.

- Major 7th (especially descending, I only found "I love you" by Cole Porter 'till now.) For ascending I have "Ceora" and "Don't know why" (Norah Jones), more titles are welcome.

I'd prefer songs with vocals since I find it easier to remember the lyrics along with the intervals, but any names of tunes you did find helpful are welcome.

I'd be happy to post the list I've decided on as soon as I have the tunes with accompanying intervals in my head should anyone be interested.

Thank you for your time reading.

Kind regards, page

My reference gives "Somethings Coming" for augmented 4/diminished 5, "There's a Place For Us"(aka Somewhere) and You Gotta Have Heart for ascending min7, just Watermelon Man for descending min7, and just I Love You descending and Ceora ascending for maj7, so what's that, like 2 new/more tunes?

Edited January 18, 2014 by danasgoodstuff

[umum_cypher]

I think Django Bates' Interval Song might have been mentioned here before. The vid is terrible quality unfortunately, but once it's in your head it won't leave.

[page]

enjoying this thread a lot ... makes me want to pick up my saxophones again, too!

here's a version akin to my first encounter with "Invitation" - very good one as the melody sticks easily once you've heard it:

Thank you, king ubu. I need the melody to stick indeed. It helps when it is clear and standing out.

[page]

Hi all,

i'm working on my ear training and I'm making a list of songs to help me remember the intervals. I've found some tunes I am familar with for most intervals. There are a few intervals though that give a bit of trouble and I'd like to ask your help in what has helped you while you were learning.

The intervals I have the most trouble with are

- augmented 4th (especially descending) could anyone recommend some songs for this one. For ascending I have "Maria" and "The Simpsons" but I'd be happy with some more titles.

- minor 7th, ascending and descending, so far I have "Somewhere" (Westside Story) for ascending and "Watermelon Man". Some more titles would come in handy.

- Major 7th (especially descending, I only found "I love you" by Cole Porter 'till now.) For ascending I have "Ceora" and "Don't know why" (Norah Jones), more titles are welcome.

I'd prefer songs with vocals since I find it easier to remember the lyrics along with the intervals, but any names of tunes you did find helpful are welcome.

I'd be happy to post the list I've decided on as soon as I have the tunes with accompanying intervals in my head should anyone be interested.

Thank you for your time reading.

Kind regards, page

My reference gives "Somethings Coming" for augmented 4/diminished 5, "There's a Place For Us"(aka Somewhere) and You Gotta Have Heart for ascending min7, just Watermelon Man for descending min7, and just I Love You escending and Ceora ascending for maj7, so what's that, like 2 new/more tunes?

Hi Dana, thank you. Is that "Something Coming" from the "Westside Story"? I'll look for "You gotta have heart" since I don't know that one. I didn't know about "Ceora" until a few days ago. What a lovely tune that is. I'm planning to put it on my repertoire list and do a vocal version of it. Maybe I'll even write a translation. I think I'll choose the phrase mentioned from "When I fall in love" for the maj7 since I did that one many times with the big band. Thank you for looking into your list for me and adding these!

Edited January 17, 2014 by page

[page]

I think Django Bates' Interval Song might have been mentioned here before. The vid is terrible quality unfortunately, but once it's in your head it won't leave.

Thank you for this one. I've read about this song somewhere or at least someone mentioned it elsewhere that he was taught this song at a music class. I did write the lyrics down to try it out later, but it is easier listening to it and singing along.