Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones) RIP

[David Ayers]

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

someday, however, when enough time has passed not to offend anyone who is still mourning, I will do a detailed critique of Blues People, which has some very insightful sociology and a lot of bad history;

Yeah, I recently reread (after several decades) 'Blues people' and the first 100 or so pages shocked me profoundly, they were so awful.

I loved the sleeve notes he used to write for Prestige. Willis Jackson's 'Thunderbird' and James Moody's 'Moody's workshop' gave me more than most other writers.

Also 'The screamers' - a little story about Lynn Hope doing a gig in Newark.

RIP

MG

[erwbol]

This morning, I watched some YouTube clips of Amiri Baraka. After trying a few clips I settled on the following.

http://youtu.be/nR5pdz2uGFc

At the very end of the lecture and immediately following a moving poem, he gives the audience a reading of his controversial poem Somebody Blew Up America. This so they can judge for themselves. (His introduction to the poem starts at 55:20.)

Earlier in the lecture he warns about the danger of putting crosshairs on people, how such actions can influence others to violence. He should have taken his own advice when writing his loco 9/11 poem.

Here is another passage not yet quoted in this thread:

"Who knew why five Israelis was filming the explosion

And cracking they sides at the notion."

(The whole poem can be found here.)

Edited January 13, 2014 by erwbol

[Face of the Bass]

Here is another passage not yet quoted in this thread:

"Who knew why five Israelis was filming the explosion

And cracking they sides at the notion."

(The whole poem can be found here.)

That also came from the same dubious sources as the 4,000 Israelis bit did.

[AllenLowe]

this part of Baraka is, indeed, not only offensive but beneath him, I think; and it's disturbing, yes, just like his long history of anti-semitism. I recognize it, just as I recognize Jack Kerouac's anti-semitism and late-in-life right wing politics. And Zora Neale Hurton's opposition to Brown vs the Board of Education and HER anti-semitism.

but as Tom Lehrer said, ".....everybody hates the Jews."

also, I think, his mention of Auschwitz in the WTC poem is a smokescreen, his way of covering his ass (to mix metaphors).

Edited January 13, 2014 by AllenLowe

[Face of the Bass]

this part of Baraka is, indeed, not only offensive but beneath him, I think; and it's disturbing, yes, just like his long history of anti-semitism. I recognize it, just as I recognize Jack Kerouac's anti-semitism and late-in-life right wing politics. And Zora Neale Hurton's opposition to Brown vs the Board of Education and HER anti-semitism.

but as Tom Lehrer said, ".....everybody hates the Jews."

also, I think, his mention of Auschwitz in the WTC poem is a smokescreen, his way of covering his ass (to mix metaphors).

I'm just curious; what do you mean by his "long history of anti-semitism"? Pretty much everything I've seen in that regard relates to this one poem.

[AllenLowe]

there's actually a long Anti-Defamation League thing on line with a lot of old citations of Baraka's statements, writings etc; I'll see if I can get the link.

here it is: http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/baraka_words.html#.UtRv2vYaAi8

Edited January 13, 2014 by AllenLowe

[blind-blake]

http://m.forward.com/articles/190812

http://m.forward.com/blogs/the-arty-semite/190688

A couple of interesting articles in the Jewish Daily Forward

[David Ayers]

Yes sorry to butt in, and without reading Allen's link - but yes it goes all the way back to the late 1960s. I don't have the reference to hand but Jones, as he then was, and a certain politically minded tenor saxophonist, were said to have distributed anti-semitic leaflets on the streets of NY, probably at the time of the 1968-9 teachers' strike which was a trigger for major fiction between Jewish and African-American communities.

That is also why I posted the Black Dada Nihilismus link, make of it what you will.

[JSngry]

So....at times a great artist, at times a bad person...we got anything else here?

[mjzee]

Sometimes that's enough.

[David Ayers]

I think the reference I mentioned is in Frank Kofsky's Black Nationalism and the Revolution in Music. I'm not going to check but somebody might want to.

I could be wrong and I don't have any notes that I can find.

[AllenLowe]

I do wonder how well Baraka's writing holds up; the little bit I see around almost always to me has flashes of insight but then is sunk by the weight of its own rhetoric. when I have more time I'll spend more time with it, perhaps.

though I have read the Dutchmen, which I feel is not a good play.

though it might be, as Norman Mailer suggested with Andy Warhol's film making, that often bad art has a real influence on good art; and so we see people like Greg Tate, who clearly feels that his very existence as a writer and artist was predicated on Baraka's work.

the anti-semitic thing bothers me more and more, I gotta admit, despite various apologies and explanations. It just to me is a kind of pandering that was foreign to people like Ellison and that seems to exist, even in recantation, with a wink and a nod.

Edited January 16, 2014 by AllenLowe

[Face of the Bass]

I do wonder how well Baraka's writing holds up; the little bit I see around almost always to me has flashes of insight but then is sunk by the weight of its own rhetoric. when I have more time I'll spend more time with it, perhaps.

though I have read the Dutchmen, which I feel is not a good play.

though it might be, as Norman Mailer suggested with Andy Warhol's film making, that often bad art has a real influence on good art; and so we see people like Greg Tate, who clearly feels that his very existence as a writer and artist was predicated on Baraka's work.

the anti-semitic thing bothers me more and more, I gotta admit, despite various apologies and explanations. It just to me is a kind of pandering that was foreign to people like Ellison and that seems to exist, even in recantation, with a wink and a nod.

I feel like I can't respond to what you are saying honestly without breaking this board's rules about political discussion. If that's going to be the rules we have to follow, then I think discussion of his anti-Semitism should be out-of-bounds, because it necessarily raises questions about Zionism and the state of Israel that I would love to respond to in a fuller way but can't without becoming overtly political.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Face of the Bass

[JSngry]

I do wonder how well Baraka's writing holds up; the little bit I see around almost always to me has flashes of insight but then is sunk by the weight of its own rhetoric. when I have more time I'll spend more time with it, perhaps.

though I have read the Dutchmen, which I feel is not a good play.

though it might be, as Norman Mailer suggested with Andy Warhol's film making, that often bad art has a real influence on good art; and so we see people like Greg Tate, who clearly feels that his very existence as a writer and artist was predicated on Baraka's work.

the anti-semitic thing bothers me more and more, I gotta admit, despite various apologies and explanations. It just to me is a kind of pandering that was foreign to people like Ellison and that seems to exist, even in recantation, with a wink and a nod.

I feel like I can't respond to what you are saying honestly without breaking this board's rules about political discussion. If that's going to be the rules we have to follow, then I think discussion of his anti-Semitism should be out-of-bounds, because it necessarily raises questions about Zionism and the state of Israel that I would love to respond to in a fuller way but can't without becoming overtly political.

This.

It has been duly noted that Baraka's life involved controversy, some of it stemming from comments construed as anti-Semitic in nature.

It has also been duly noted that Baraka himself evolved on many positions but never removed the controversies for some.

It has also been duly noted that the case has been made that contextualizing Baraka's comments of any era, although not "justifying" them, does provide a better understanding of intent.

It has also been duly noted that Baraka's comments were so offensive to some that there will never be room for understanding of any sort, so hurtful they were.

These are all legitimate points, and they have all been duly noted by various contributors to this thread.

Since this thread is an RIP thread, and since RIP(or otherwise)s seem to have more or less been offered by all with an opinion, and since neither this thread nor this board exist to host an active, ongoing debate about real world/real-time issues of Antisemitism (real and/or perceived), Zionism (real and/or perceived), Black Nationalism (real and/or perceived), or any ongoing real world/real-time political issue (real and/or perceived), this thread will now be closed, since that seems to be the only real direction left for an ongoing discussion. I think the "Arts & Letters" element has pretty much reached the end of its road here. There's always new threads to open or old ones to up should that prove to not be the case.

These are all topics worthy of debate and discussion, just not on the Organissimo board in its current incarnation.