Coltrane's work on Prestige

[Milestones]

I'm interested to hear opinions on this work--albums and individual tracks. I do get the feeling that this period is neglected. I know Trane appeared a great deal as a sideman and there were a lot of blowing sessions. But I think there were certainly some records where they aimed higher--and hit the mark.

I personally like Coltrane with a 3-man front line on most tracks and Dakar--also 3-man, but featuring two baritones.

[Rooster_Ties]

My experience of this material is almost entirely from the three (3) most recent boxes that collect his 1) leader-dates, 2) collaborations as co-leader, and 3) sideman appearances. Which is to say that I've heard next to none of Trane's Prestige material in their original "album" contexts.

I'm probably really weird, in that I've never really gotten bitten by the Coltrane bug. I have a TON of respect for his playing (boatloads!!), but -- as crazy as it sounds -- relatively little interest in either his Impulse or even Atlantic material. (For instance, I have about 4x or 5x as much Joe Henderson on CD, as Trane.)

And although I'm a Miles Davis nut (and have have nearly everything I can get my hands on, including all the Columbia boxes), I have NEVER been all that interested in MILES on Prestige.

All of which is to say that I was totally SHOCKED a few years ago, when I bought my first of the three Trane Prestige boxes -- how much I enjoyed his playing. I don't know that the material is always the absolute greatest, but his playing is just lovely, and really spoke and still speaks to me. Very underrated, or maybe my expectations were unnaturally low, and they were exceded greatly.

[JSngry]

I'd say you can buy the whole shebang with confidence. There's a few dates here and there where things don't quite click (none of the leader dates, though), and even then, it's very "reality based", and it's probably more cost effective to just buy in to the aggregate.

The really cool thing about Trane's Prestige date (aside from following his development) is the tunes. I think it was Bob Weinstock who commented that Coltrane was an asset to any session because he knew a lot of tunes, as in, a lot of tunes. And it sure seems that he did. You get some of that on the Atlantic stuff as well, but..."Love Thy Neighbor", who played that, before or after? Somebody, no doubt, but that's not a tune to call with a pickup band, usually, unless you know going in that they got some deep repertoire. I don't know that I've ever seen it in a fakebook, ever, and the few people I have heard play it, you ask them how they know the tune, and they say, "Trane".

[Mark Stryker]

More or less agree with Jim, but if you're looking for the absolute cream, the quartet dates "Soultrane" and "Traneing In" are it, especially the former.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[Rooster_Ties]

And I forgot to mention -- the next best thing to Trane on all the Prestige dates, is all the MAL WALDRON.

[king ubu]

"Settin' the Pace" is a big favourite here ... probalby a tiny bit ahead of "Soultrane", which again is a tiny bit ahead of "Traneing In".

The debut album "Coltrane" is fine, too ... but as Mr. Sangrey said: buy with confidence!

Of the jams, one I've been very fond of since my early teens is "The Cats" - a mighty fine band with Idrees Sulieman (heard way too rarely!), Trane, Kenny Burrell, Doug Watkins, Louis Hayes, Tommy Flanagan (who gets a nice trio tune, "How Long Has This Been Goin' On" - omitted, alas on the three thematically ordered boxes, as are a few other tracks where Trane lays out ... one from the Draper album, one or two from "Cattin'" with Lady Q ... and a whole lot of stuff from the two Gene Ammons albums, where the omission is okay in my book, but where a lone tune is missing to complete albums, I find it silly).

The session with Q and Wess is fine, too (Wess wins!), and I'm also fond of the Interplay album ... it's kinda fun to hear Chambers and Watkins opposite each other (I prefer the later, I think - wonderful sound, perfect time, good pitch ... sure, Chambers was an m-f, but Watkins had it down!).

Oh, and one I've always loved a lot is "The Last Trane" ... it has the best (by far!) track of the trio date that was issued as half of "Lush Life", a long alternate of the blues that easily beats the master. That trio idea was kinda trying to emulate Sonny Rollins, I assume? Or did it just grow out of Garland arriving late, I don't remember ... Earl May surely wasn't the right bassist to pull it and Taylor probably not the right drummer, either ... but that long blues is effin' good, May is up to the task there!

The long session with Wilbur Harden is lovely, too ... so is the Burrell & Coltrane album (actually that one's a bit darker than just lovely, it's a real beauty, and that goes deeper than being "lovely"). And talking Harden, there's the Savoy material which is better than the Prestige date, I find ... there was 2CD reissue pulling it all together (I think OK didn't even manage to omit anything for some weird reason - our luck!).

I've never been that fond of "Dakar", I'm afraid, sound a bit like a gimmick to my ears ... the album with Q ("Cattin'") has some very good moments but also some fluffs by Q ... but then who cares, Waldron is great there and - finally! - there's a good drummer that doesn't just make you feel good but has actual good time, too (Ed Thipgen!). Also when I want Trane in a tenor jam, I rather go for "The Dealers"/"Wheelin' and Dealin'" than for "Tenor Conclave" (Art Taylor's rushing time is at its most extreme there, things get rather hectic in some spots). It's fun of course, but the stuff with Wess/Q (and also the BN with Griffin/Mobley) is better (the later has much more bite of course, which depending on how I feel on a particular day is a good thing).

The long sessions with Garland leading a quintet with Trane and Donald Byrd are highly enjoyable though ... had all of the albums separately before (I actually had most of them before, not "Dakar", "Stardust", "Bahia" and "Standard Coltrane" though ... but I had a disc pulling together all the Harden tracks from the later three).

[mjzee]

I have all 3 Prestige boxes, and am in agreement here. These are actually the Coltranes that bring me the most enjoyment: he's not an icon yet, just a masterful tenor man with an identifiable sound. Some tracks go on a bit long (I'm thinking Sweet Sapphire Blues), but who cares?

[jazzbo]

Everyone is making a compelling argument here for the material. I like JIm's point about the tunes. Quite on target. And the originals by Waldron et al are good too.

I really like the Davis material, of course. I like the stuff with Garland, and almost anywhere where Chambers is on board, I like John and Paul together, there's something about it.

[Mark Stryker]

King Ubu reminds me that I spaced out "Settin' the Pace" -- a great one two. Add it to my two and call them the three best

[king ubu]

King Ubu reminds me that I spaced out "Settin' the Pace" -- a great one two. Add it to my two and call them the three best

I think actually - to get back to Lon's point, too! - I like it that much because of the tunes it features! Those two Dietz/Schwartz songs are wonderful! And then you get an interesting JMac original, plus a highspeed outro ... but it's the two Dietz/Schwartz tunes I love!

But as for tunes, yeah ... "Why Was I Born?" on "Burrell & Coltrane", "Violets for Your Furs" and "Wihle My Lady Sleeps" on "Coltrane", Alonzo Levister next to Friedrich Hollander and Irving Berlin on "Traneing In" ... and "Soultrane" is just plain marvellous, five rarely heard ones (well, maybe not "Good Bait", but then who actually plays Tadd Dameron's music?). There are indeed many wonderful songs to hear (and some good tunes, too ... even those throwaway ones Waldron seems to often have made up at or just before the sessions are memorable in many cases!)

[CJ Shearn]

"Settin' the Pace" is a big favourite here ... probalby a tiny bit ahead of "Soultrane", which again is a tiny bit ahead of "Traneing In".

The debut album "Coltrane" is fine, too ... but as Mr. Sangrey said: buy with confidence!

Of the jams, one I've been very fond of since my early teens is "The Cats" - a mighty fine band with Idrees Sulieman (heard way too rarely!), Trane, Kenny Burrell, Doug Watkins, Louis Hayes, Tommy Flanagan (who gets a nice trio tune, "How Long Has This Been Goin' On" - omitted, alas on the three thematically ordered boxes, as are a few other tracks where Trane lays out ... one from the Draper album, one or two from "Cattin'" with Lady Q ... and a whole lot of stuff from the two Gene Ammons albums, where the omission is okay in my book, but where a lone tune is missing to complete albums, I find it silly).

The session with Q and Wess is fine, too (Wess wins!), and I'm also fond of the Interplay album ... it's kinda fun to hear Chambers and Watkins opposite each other (I prefer the later, I think - wonderful sound, perfect time, good pitch ... sure, Chambers was an m-f, but Watkins had it down!).

Oh, and one I've always loved a lot is "The Last Trane" ... it has the best (by far!) track of the trio date that was issued as half of "Lush Life", a long alternate of the blues that easily beats the master. That trio idea was kinda trying to emulate Sonny Rollins, I assume? Or did it just grow out of Garland arriving late, I don't remember ... Earl May surely wasn't the right bassist to pull it and Taylor probably not the right drummer, either ... but that long blues is effin' good, May is up to the task there!

The long session with Wilbur Harden is lovely, too ... so is the Burrell & Coltrane album (actually that one's a bit darker than just lovely, it's a real beauty, and that goes deeper than being "lovely"). And talking Harden, there's the Savoy material which is better than the Prestige date, I find ... there was 2CD reissue pulling it all together (I think OK didn't even manage to omit anything for some weird reason - our luck!).

I've never been that fond of "Dakar", I'm afraid, sound a bit like a gimmick to my ears ... the album with Q ("Cattin'") has some very good moments but also some fluffs by Q ... but then who cares, Waldron is great there and - finally! - there's a good drummer that doesn't just make you feel good but has actual good time, too (Ed Thipgen!). Also when I want Trane in a tenor jam, I rather go for "The Dealers"/"Wheelin' and Dealin'" than for "Tenor Conclave" (Art Taylor's rushing time is at its most extreme there, things get rather hectic in some spots). It's fun of course, but the stuff with Wess/Q (and also the BN with Griffin/Mobley) is better (the later has much more bite of course, which depending on how I feel on a particular day is a good thing).

The long sessions with Garland leading a quintet with Trane and Donald Byrd are highly enjoyable though ... had all of the albums separately before (I actually had most of them before, not "Dakar", "Stardust", "Bahia" and "Standard Coltrane" though ... but I had a disc pulling together all the Harden tracks from the later three).

Garland was late for the IIRC.

Edited December 20, 2013 by CJ Shearn

[Peter Friedman]

My views will be somewhat different than what others have said. Perhaps my favorite Trane on Prestige are the albums with Miles.

There seemed to me to be a bit more organization and structure than on many of the other Prestige dates. Though I do like most of that material too. As has been said, some of the tunes on Prestige go on too long for my taste. But on the whole, I find Trane's playing on the various Prestige recording much my satisfying ( to me) than his work on the Impulse label.

I have never been able to get excited about Mal Waldron's piano playing which most who post here seem to consider extremely good.

I much prefer to hear Coltrane with piano players such as Wynton Kelly, Sonny Clark, Kenny Drew, and Tommy Flanagan. To my ears they all swing more ( or at least differently) than Waldron, and Kelly, Clark and Drew have a much more blues oriented approach than Mal which I find blends extremely well with Trane.

[Mark Stryker]

Well, I wasn't counting the Miles dates -- just Trane as a leader. "Relaxin'" is a desert island disc for me, etc.

[John L]

I love Coltrane on Prestige, particularly from 1957-1958. In fact, I prefer these recordings to the Altanic records, even if the latter might be more important from an objective point of view. If the Atlantic recordings give the feeling of a great transition that has not yet been fully realized, some of the Prestige recordings are a peak of Coltrane working his mature magic firmly within the bop/hard bop tradition. Soultrane is probably my favorite. But most of the others are also fantastic.

My favorite Coltrane from the Atlantic years is not on Atlantic - Coltrane with Miles in Europe: 1960/

Edited December 20, 2013 by John L

[John Litweiler]

Milestones, you're in for a treat. Coltrane's Prestiges are a fascinating trip, or trips -- each record is a journey in itself. Later recordings, after mid-1957, are about the height of his sheets-of-sound period (Traneing In, Soultrane). Coltrane made a great sideman, too, with Miles, Ammons, Dameron, etc. The Monk quartets with Coltrane and the two Wilbur Hardens on Savoy are more great music from the same period.

[JSngry]

Speaking of Trane as a sideman, not on Prestige, but easy to overlook, and you lose should you so do!

"You're A Weaver Of Dreams"...you can tell, I think, when somebody really knows the lyrics to a song.

[Chuck Nessa]

I started buying this music on lp at the beginning of the '60s, accumulated all the music, sold it and replaced it with cds and eventually bought them for the "final" time in the current 3 boxes. This music has been wonderful for the last 50+ years of my life. Don't worry about which is "best".

[Guy Berger]

I like these a lot, they're worth hearing 100%, but they just don't mean to me as much as my favorite Atlantic and Impulse recordings.

I second JSngry's comment about Trane's encyclopedic song selection.

[CJ Shearn]

I've lived with this music many years, and I think (despite all the hiccups, like Arthur Taylor rushing things) it's great to chart Trane's rapid development. I think my personal favorite sessions have always been "Informal Jazz", all the stuff with Burrell, and the Garland quintet sides, from this period.

[Milestones]

I do have a fair amount of the stuff: Soultrane, the record with Burrell, Lush Life, various tracks found on compilations. Some have commented on the Miles Davis material, which is quite a bit of stuff on its own--and I have all of those.

I see we have some major fans here!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

Prestige Coltrane > Atlantic + Impluse! Coltrane

[Milestones]

What are the names of the three box sets? I know one is called Side Steps.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Milestones

[mjzee]

Fearless Leader, Side Steps, Interplay

[Mark Stryker]

I also find myself returning often to the Red Garland Quintet records with Trane and Donald Byrd -- great front line with Byrd right on the cusp of his absolute peak as a trumpet player.

[ArtSalt]

He had a neat modernist Ivy sartorial style going on at the time too, I dig those photos by Claxton in the Guggenheim Museum: a musician starting to flex his genius and you can see this is a man on a mission.

I love the Burrell stuff on Prestige and I really enjoy Dakar, but some less than satisfying stuff too: the Ray Draper outing.