Musical instruments you could do without in jazz.

[JSngry]

There's a lot of beautiful music to be discovered.

Ain't that the truth!

[king ubu]

You ever heard Mat Mathews?

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Bu2jv7ipjg74r

Mathews' Dawn recordings can be found here: http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/catalogue...bel&label_id=10

I have not yet picked them up, but I'm inclined to get the whole Dawn catalogue some day. The only record with him I have, a CD, actually, is Joe Puma's "Wild Kitten", also on Dawn, also available where the link leads you.

Pretty good stuff, in my opinion!

The Dawn catalogue has several nice things, among them two CDs by the Jazz Modes (for French horn freaks ), a nice Dick Garcia disc (with Bill Evans on some, Gene Quill on some other tracks), a nice Randy Weston disc, and a then, highly recommended, Paul Quinichette's "Complete Dawn Recordings".

ubu

[Jim Alfredson]

I love trombone. It's a fantastic instrument. That said, it's now time for the obligatory trombone joke:

What's the difference between a dead frog in the road and a dead trombonist?

The frog was on his way to a gig.

BA-DUM CHING!

[BeBop]

Hey, I was a stage band saxophonist in high school. I've every reason to dislike the trombone, if not trombonists.

[Muskrat Ramble]

I just do not understand the relative lack of trombones in "modern" jazz, occasional stars like JJ Johnson notwithstanding. It's such a beautiful, expressive instrument in the right hands--"in the right hands" always being the key for any music.

[danasgoodstuff]

Ralphie Boy,

Not to be disagreeable, obviously you like what you like, but I find it ironical that you should way you don't dig da fiddle when your avatar is an album that features one track ("Directly From My Heart to You"0 with Don 'Sugarcane' Harris playing the shit outta one...just a thought for your ponderation.

[chris olivarez]

Ralphie Boy,

Not to be disagreeable, obviously you like what you like, but I find it ironical that you should way you don't dig da fiddle when your avatar is an album that features one track ("Directly From My Heart to You"0 with Don 'Sugarcane' Harris playing the shit outta one...just a thought for your ponderation.

Good point.

[chris olivarez]

I really can't think of an instrument or vocal style that displeases me but I can think of a musical style where a lot of these instruments were used and that is the

"Sweet Band" big bands. Everytime I hear one of those records I'm looking for the nearest porcealin god.

[Free For All]

I just do not understand the relative lack of trombones in "modern" jazz, occasional stars like JJ Johnson notwithstanding. It's such a beautiful, expressive instrument in the right hands--"in the right hands" always being the key for any music.

I agree. Unfortunately, it's also a very difficult instrument to play well so there are fewer good trombonists than there are good players of saxophone, trumpet etc. Coordinating tongue (articulation) and slide is the main challenge for most players

Like any instrument, in the wrong hands it can sound pretty bad. This really returns to something I brought up on another thread- the two most important elements (to me) of playing jazz are SOUND and TIME. The trombone players I DON'T like have issues in one or both of these areas- uncontrolled sound and/or sloppy technique which makes the instrument sound cumbersome. Nothing else matters (melody, rhythm, harmony) if SOUND and TIME are not happening. They are fundamental elements of playing upon which all other things depend, IMHO. Count me in as someone who hates bad trombone as much or more than anyone here!

For the record, I don't mean to come off as being hypersensitive or defensive about this- it's just that I have to deal with this negative generalization frequently enough that I think it's worth discussing.

And I didn't mean to criticize you personally, Conn. You just brought up something (with innocent intentions I'm sure) that I feel particularly passionate about.

[Free For All]

Hey, I was a stage band saxophonist in high school. I've every reason to dislike the trombone, if not trombonists.

Hey dude, if I remember the "stage band" days correctly the saxes (or trumpets for that matter) weren't exactly setting the world on fire!

Unless you're talking about getting whacked in the back of the head by an errant slide or sprayed by a leaky one. You don't think that happened by accident, do you?

[7/4]

Cowbells.

This will be crushing news for Randy.

but that's just because hardly anyone can play the damn thing decently.

Name a top notch cowbell solo.....

[DTMX]

The bassoon, aka "the farting bedpost". It's great for adding color to a piece of music but I don't think it's expressive enough for extended soloing. And yes, I've got CDs by Michael Rabinowitz and Illinois Jacquet (playing "Round Midnight") and they do wonders with it but the sound doesn't do much for me outside of classical music.

A friend of mine bought a second-hand bassoon, aka "the bass duck", and was playing Charlie Parker songs on it - and playing them well - but to me it just sounded like a scat-singing mallard.

[BeBop]

Hey, I was a stage band saxophonist in high school.  I've every reason to dislike the trombone, if not trombonists. 

Hey dude, if I remember the "stage band" days correctly the saxes (or trumpets for that matter) weren't exactly setting the world on fire!

Unless you're talking about getting whacked in the back of the head by an errant slide or sprayed by a leaky one. You don't think that happened by accident, do you?

Exactly!

[catesta]

I really could do without the soprano sax. That is the most irritating, nasal sounding thing I've ever heard. Reminds me of a cross between a sitar and a kazoo...

Have to agree with this. I've never been a fan of the soprano sax, no matter who the player of it is.

[Free For All]

Did Ra ever use Theramin?

Now's THERE'S a question you don't hear everyday!

Scott Robinson (NYC saxophonist) plays Theramin. Maria Schneider used it on one of her recordings, albeit more for a siren-like sound than in any melodic context. I've heard some old recordings of Theramin with some really amazing players. When you can learn to control the pitch it has an eerie vocal quality. I don't hear anyone playing "Donna Lee" on it, though.

[Peter Johnson]

The bassoon, aka "the farting bedpost".

[Free For All]

I really could do without the soprano sax.  That is the most irritating, nasal sounding thing I've ever heard.  Reminds me of a cross between a sitar and a kazoo...

Have to agree with this. I've never been a fan of the soprano sax, no matter who the player of it is.

I've always thought Branford was good on the soprano. And Tim Ries.

I think the players who have had classical training on soprano and learned to play it in tune with a good sound do more for me. And then there's Dave Liebman, who gets that really primal "fire in the pet shop" sound- he seems to defy all the "rules".

I expect people here either love him or hate him.

[Ed S]

Didn't have time to read the whole thread but I'll go with harpsichord.

I think I like most other instruments that I've heard in a jazz context.

[ghost of miles]

You ever heard Mat Mathews?

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Bu2jv7ipjg74r

Nope, but I'll look into him. And thanks for the CD links, King Ubu!

[ghost of miles]

Didn't have time to read the whole thread but I'll go with harpsichord.

I think I like most other instruments that I've heard in a jazz context.

Didn't Cal Cobbs play harpsichord on a couple of Ayler records? I also liked it as part of Artie Shaw's Gramercy Five...

[Jazzmoose]

I don't mind the soprano sax at all. Don't you like Coltrane's "My Favorite Things," Moose?

You really know how to hit below the belt, don't you? That's only the album that hooked me on jazz to begin with. What can I say? And yet even with Coltrane, I can only take so much soprano. With Shorter (who's tone sounds somewhat nasal to me already) I can handle far less before giving up.

[ghost of miles]

Cowbells.

This will be crushing news for Randy.

but that's just because hardly anyone can play the damn thing decently.

Name a top notch cowbell solo.....

Max Roach on Bud Powell's "Un Poco Loco"!

[mikeweil]

The Dawn catalogue has several nice things, among them two CDs by the Jazz Modes (for French horn freaks )

The Watkins albums have wordless vocals on some tracks by a rather operatic sounding singer - he wanted a different color, using the voice like an instrument. I love them, though, and I would advice anybody with only a trace of interest in Watkins to get the two Atlantic LPs which are available on two Koch CDs, as long as they are around, they swing harder than the Dawn sessions, one has an extended group with Sahib Shihab that will appeal the most to the board members here.

Atlantic:

Dawn:

[mikeweil]

I must add that I consider Julius Watkins and Charlie Rouse to be one of the great horn ( ) teams in jazz, they would have continued if the group had got some more gigs, they had met in Oscar Pettifords group. (The first one here has Phil Urso on tenor.)

[connoisseur series500]

And I didn't mean to criticize you personally, Conn. You just brought up something (with innocent intentions I'm sure) that I feel particularly passionate about.

Absolutely no offense taken, FOF. When you post as much as I do then you're bound to post a lot of trash. B)

I started this thread late last night when I had better things to do.

I've got Jazzbo on my postcount tail and he hammers out 40 girlie pics a day when he's hot.

That's pressure man!