BeBop Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 After offering up "trombone" as my dislike, I pulled out a couple of discs featuring a couple of my favorite trombone players. Vic Dickenson and JJ Johnson. (No Frank Rosolino handy). I find myself retrenching a bit. The instrument isn't a problem. But put it in the hands of a showboater or a rank amateur and the sonic damage that can be done... Then again, just about any instrument in the wrong hands can be deadly. A tenor in mine, for example... Quote
Alexander Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 I don't like synths. I don't like the way rock musicians use the tenor or soprano sax (waaaay too sweet for my tastes). Years ago, when I first got into jazz, I hated the sound of a harmon mute in a trumpet, but I got into it and now I love it! For a while, I didn't much care for the use of cup mutes and plunger mutes, but again I've come to appreciate them. Love the flute, clarinet, and oboe. Love electric piano. Love violin. LOVE vocalese. There's very little, actually, that will make me turn something down/off. Quote
7/4 Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 Electric guitar with bad tone. Cowbells. The triangle. Quote
couw Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 I've never heard an instrument that I didn't like. It is usually the playing or the setting. I hate it when kids or other hippies sit at the trainstation and play their didgeridoo. I love the way Pino Minafra plays the thing and integrates it into his music. I hate some of the electric guitar playing, notably on jazz albums; I love the way FZ wails his solos over what one might just as easily consider jazz. Quote
JSngry Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 I was going to say bagpipes, based on Rufus Harley ( a decent sopranoist, though), but then I remembered this Ayler bagpipe cut on MUSIC IS THE HEALING FORCE OF THE UNIVERSE that totally zones me, so I guess the answer would be "none". I agree, it's the player (and the setting), not the instrument. Quote
couw Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 okay, the theremin maybe... but that's just because hardly anyone can play the damn thing decently Quote
Free For All Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 (edited) After offering up "trombone" as my dislike, I pulled out a couple of discs featuring a couple of my favorite trombone players. Vic Dickenson and JJ Johnson. (No Frank Rosolino handy). I find myself retrenching a bit. The instrument isn't a problem. But put it in the hands of a showboater or a rank amateur and the sonic damage that can be done... Thank you for that qualification, BeBop. I'm a trombonist and have been for a long time. I've endured hearing the constant generalization that "trombone sucks", and while I laugh at the jokes with everyone else, it gets a little tiresome after a while. The premise of this thread is faulty, IMHO. It's the PLAYERS, not the INSTRUMENTS. I hate getting hit in the head with a hammer, but I don't hate all hammers! I DON'T like soprano sax when someone doesn't play it well. I DO like it when it's in able hands. Likewise with the other instruments mentioned. As far as the synth, the problem is that the sounds become dated quickly. I certainly respect everyone's opinion, and I understand that we all have likes and dislikes, but to generalize and dismiss an instrument because of a bad player is a big mistake. I would like anyone who comes to one of my performances to do so with an open mind and not say "Shit, there's a trombone, let's get out of here." I have had people come to hear me play and come up afterwards and say "I never liked the trombone, but I like the way you play". I feel good if I can convert a non-believer. And I offer that last comment with honest humility, but I think it does help prove my point. Being narrow-minded is NOT the most desirable quality for a jazz fan, IMHO. Edited February 11, 2004 by Free For All Quote
JSngry Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 okay, the theremin maybe... but that's just because hardly anyone can play the damn thing decently Probably so, but it sure makes for a good prop! Quote
Chrome Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 The French horn = zzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote
Joe Christmas Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 I can't think of an instance where the theremin has been used in a jazz combo of any size. Jazz-BASED music, on the other hand... I've seen one particularly talented theremist (thereminist? theredoctor?) do wonderful things with it, in Johnny's Monktail large group, in fact. Quote
dave9199 Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 Tuba as a solo instrument. Ever hear Ray Draper try to solo like Coltrane? It's awful!!! Quote
Free For All Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 the goddamn oboe. There's a guy named Charlie Pillow in NYC that plays the shit out of the oboe. Quote
Free For All Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 Tuba as a solo instrument. Ever hear Ray Draper try to solo like Coltrane? It's awful!!! Bad context for the instrument (I don't really like those Ray Draper sides either). As a solo instrument in a Dirty Dozen-type context it works quite well, and there are some awesome players in those bands. Quote
Free For All Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 (edited) I'm not trying to be disrespectful of anyone's opinion. I'm just playing devil's advocate and posting what I feel are exceptions to these generalizations. I understand that many of these responses are offered with a sense of humor, but I've been on the receiving end of "instrument prejudice" enough times that I feel strongly about this subject. Now I must go practice. Edited February 11, 2004 by Free For All Quote
ralphie_boy Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 Violin just doesn't do it for me. No tears shed when that Stuff Smith set went bye bye. Quote
JSngry Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 Tuba as a solo instrument. Ever hear Ray Draper try to solo like Coltrane? It's awful!!! Bad context for the instrument (I don't really like those Ray Draper sides either). As a solo instrument in a Dirty Dozen-type context it works quite well, and there are some awesome players in those bands. Leave us not forget Howard Johnson either. (and same here, Draper does nothing for me either) Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Posted February 11, 2004 Cowbells. This will be crushing news for Randy. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Posted February 11, 2004 The premise of this thread is faulty, IMHO. It's the PLAYERS, not the INSTRUMENTS. I hate getting hit in the head with a hammer, but I don't hate all hammers! You're right FOF. Premise of the thread is bad. Hit me on the head with that hammer, will you? Quote
ghost of miles Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 OTOH Joe Mooney has suddenly turned me onto jazz accordion. Who woulda thunk it? Quote
JSngry Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 You ever heard Mat Mathews? http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Bu2jv7ipjg74r Quote
mikeweil Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 It's all in the player's hand (and mouth), and it's all in the listener's ears ... There's good and mediocre players on every instrument. I have a friend who disliked many an instrument, but after playing him the right people, he turned around. I love some player on every instrument. Maybe some of you shouldn't expect some rarely heard instruments to sound too much like what you're familiar with. On the other hand, the techniques of several instruments were expanded when a player tried to transfer things he heard another instrumentalist do. Jean-Luc Ponty was influenced by Coltrane, as was Larry Young, and Coltrane practiced with sheet music for violin, piano and harp! Quote
mikeweil Posted February 11, 2004 Report Posted February 11, 2004 You ever heard Mat Mathews? http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Bu2jv7ipjg74r You remember that group of musicians that jokingly called themselves "Miscellaneous instruments club"? Mat Mathews - accordion Herbie Mann - flute Oscar Pettiford - cello Julius Watkins - french horn Joe Puma - guitar (yes, the guitar once was an outsider, too!) These guys did many a fine recording session for Dawn, Savoy, Bethlehem, Riverside etc., but without the lush sound of an orchestra like Gil Evans', where most of you all accept these instruments for coloration, in a small group setting they are like under a magnifying glass. You have to open up, get used to it and listen. Just listen. There's a lot of beautiful music to be discovered. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Posted February 11, 2004 I'm a trombonist and have been for a long time. I've endured hearing the constant generalization that "trombone sucks", and while I laugh at the jokes with everyone else, it gets a little tiresome after a while. Trombone is awesome! People don't know what their missing. Quote
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