Bill Evans' Documentary - The Universal Mind of Bill Evans

[Blue Train]

Just found this. Just in case anyone else hasn't seen it. That's his older brother Harry....who committed suicide....and whom he's buried next too.

http://youtu.be/SGful7FHu8s

Edited November 9, 2013 by Blue Train

[Blue Train]

Until this, I didn't know much about his older brother and the affect of his suicide had on him.

Found this. You can legally download the only known recordings of his brother for free.

http://www.harryevanstrio.com./

Edited November 9, 2013 by Blue Train

[fasstrack]

His (Bill's) analysis of how he approached Star Eyes shows he had a firm grip on what he was doing. He always said he had to build things from the ground up, not being as precocious as other people.

This still stands as a good refrerence on how to approach playing jazz on any instrument.

[Blue Train]

Fascinating, always wanted to know what his bro' played like, thanx.

You're welcome.

Really amazed this thread hasn't gotten much attention.

His (Bill's) analysis of how he approached Star Eyes shows he had a firm grip on what he was doing. He always said he had to build things from the ground up, not being as precocious as other people.

This still stands as a good refrerence on how to approach playing jazz on any instrument.

I agree.

[page]

Thanks for sharing. Life forms everyone and when that someone is a musician it forms the music as well. Often sad events can bring musicians to write stunning music. Really great to learn about this BT! Thanks.

Wow! I didn't see the other link until now. Great to be able to listen to all that music. How generous of his son to make this possible. Really looking forward to listening to all of it!
Thanks again, B.T.

Edited November 13, 2013 by page

[AllenLowe]

Evans basically killed himself as well; lots of drugs near the end.

btw, Larrry Kart needs to listen to Evans play at 14 minutes +. Especially at 14:20. IRONICALLY, this passage, which is, I think, some of Evans' best playing, is him illustrating what NOT to do. But damn, I woke up when he played that.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AllenLowe

[Blue Train]

Like I said...his brother's suicide affected him. He died only 16 months after him....and I agree that in general, it was suicide the moment he started using.

Also keep in mind his first wife committed suicide by throwing herself under a subway train.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Blue Train

[flat5]

Worthwhile thread. Thank you, Mr. Train.

[fasstrack]

Music triumphing over pain-again.

[Larry Kart]

Evans basically killed himself as well; lots of drugs near the end.

btw, Larrry Kart needs to listen to Evans play at 14 minutes +. Especially at 14:20. IRONICALLY, this passage, which is, I think, some of Evans' best playing, is him illustrating what NOT to do. But damn, I woke up when he played that.

I think I see what you mean. What Evans says there and then plays at 14:20 -- and also what he plays just before the relatively back-to-basics example that precedes the 14:20 stuff; the first passage being what some hip modern pianist would play on "How About You," while the latter, he says, is a dangerously un-rooted "approximation" of that approach that probably will lead one into confusion -- reminds of this speculative passage I once wrote (it's in my book) about this aspect of Evans' thinking:

'Quite articulate about his music, in a 1964 interview Evans said this: “The only way I can work is to have some kind of restraint involved, the challenge of a certain craft or form and then to find the freedom in that…. I think a lot of guys…want to circumvent that kind of labor….” Then there is this Evans statement: “I believe that all music is romantic, but if it gets schmaltzy, romanticism is disturbing. On the other hand, romanticism handled with discipline is the most beautiful kind of beauty.”

'Plausible words, perhaps, but the value that Evans seemingly places on restraint in itself leads one to ask, What is being restrained and why? Evans’s “challenge of [working within] a certain craft or form” is not merely an account of his own necessary practice; it lends to that practice an aura of moral virtue (“I think a lot of guys …want to circumvent that kind of labor….”). In other words, for Evans certain sorts of musical labor are not only valid but they also validate. And should an aesthetically valid outcome be reached in a seemingly non-laborious manner, that can be disturbing. Thus in 1964 , after acknowledging that the brilliant, lucid, and “completely unpremeditated” two-piano improvisation that he and Paul Bley played on George Russell’s 1960 album Jazz In The Space Age “was fun to do,” Evans says: “[but to] do something that hadn’t been rehearsed successfully, just like that, almost shows the lack of challenge involved in that kind of freedom.”'

[AllenLowe]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

Edited November 14, 2013 by AllenLowe

[fasstrack]

Larry: Evans spoke many times of his preference for the discipline of form-particulary the song form-experiments w/o it on recording notwithstanding. Around that same period-1964-in an interview he took pianists playing free music and using the 'inch method' (finding the next phrase by venturing inches up the keyboard) to task. He was famously and viscously rebutted by Cecil Taylor for this. I think the film best summarizes his approach to playing.

[Larry Kart]

Larry: Evans spoke many times of his preference for the discipline of form-particulary the song form-experiments w/o it on recording notwithstanding. Around that same period-1964-in an interview he took pianists playing free music and using the 'inch method' (finding the next phrase by venturing inches up the keyboard) to task. He was famously and viscously rebutted by Cecil Taylor for this. I think the film best summarizes his approach to playing.

Did Evans name any pianists who use the "inch method"? Thinking of all the pianists I've heard who arguably play in ways that Evans might regard as "free," I can't think of a one who seems to me to play that way, at least in terms of how their music sounds. Certainly not anyone whom I thought was any good, and even those whom I don't particularly care for don't seem to me to use that "method." Also, what if you recall did Cecil say in response to what Evans said? I'm ashamed to say that I've never heard of this dustup.

[fasstrack]

He did not name names. As for CT, among other things he said that Evans' work was 'totally lacking in vitality...I can name 10 pianists I'd rather hear...he's a competent cat, that's all'

[medjuck]

I remember a critic who was into free jazz telling me that Evans was nothing special and played in a way common to lots of white players and if he had to listen to someone playing in that style he preferred Chick Corea. I knew he was an asshole not because he didn't like Evans but that he couldn't even recognize his distinct style. If you're a critic who doesn't see a difference in style between Evans and Chick get another job. (He probably would have said Keith Jarrett if he'd known he was white. )

[fasstrack]

Since I've reached Krishna-consiousness, I've stopped putting down people like CT and Brad Mildew for putting down BE, but I'm surprised nobody has commented on Harry Evans' playing.

I've played with quite a few musicians who knew BE and his bro', and they all said Harry was good, but this was the first time I actually heard him play.

Although he's not as 'deep' a player as his brother, he had a lot going for him, and could have easily had a career as a player if he wanted one, but chose teaching, instead.

The essay by his widow shed some light on the intensity of the relationship between the two brothers.

Info from that site should be included in new editions of the two BE biographies.

BE idolized Harry by all accounts, possibly ergo wanting to die also after Harry's suicide. Of course, I can't really know.

I saw the last trio at the Vanguard twice in a week in late '79. Bill hardly seemed like a man on the verge of suicide. The music was fresh and exciting and he was way into it.

[medjuck]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

[Blue Train]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

Always wondered about that. You know a psychologist/psychiatrist would have had a field day with it.

[sidewinder]

I saw the last trio at the Vanguard twice in a week in late '79. Bill hardly seemed like a man on the verge of suicide. The music was fresh and exciting and he was way into it.

Saw them in 1980 in London over a couple of nights. The music was sublime, playing like a man posesssed. Had to be helped on and off the bandstand though. I remember that he played that 'Theme From Mash' at least once. To this day, it is some of the greatest music I've ever witnessed.

Edited November 15, 2013 by sidewinder

[ArtSalt]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

I hear and have read this a lot, but like many who are mixing cocaine and alcohol, did he not just think he was immortal with the omnipotent high?

[Larry Kart]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

Always wondered about that. You know a psychologist/psychiatrist would have had a field day with it.

I find his penchant for "Emily" to be far more disturbing.

[Blue Train]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

Always wondered about that. You know a psychologist/psychiatrist would have had a field day with it.

I find his penchant for "Emily" to be far more disturbing.

Never saw the film it comes from and just checked the lyrics for the song itself. Can you give more detail on why for us young'uns?

Edited November 16, 2013 by Blue Train

[Larry Kart]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

Always wondered about that. You know a psychologist/psychiatrist would have had a field day with it.

I find his penchant for "Emily" to be far more disturbing.

Never saw the film it comes from and just checked the lyrics for the song itself. Can you give more detail on why for us young'uns?

Because it too is by the Mandel and because IMO it's kind of a whiney/wimpy piece of music, as annoying in its own way as "The Shadow of Your Smile" -- though many talented jazz musicians obviously have felt otherwise.

OTOH, the film itself is darn good IIRC, though I admit to having a soft spot for Julie Andrews -- as an actress, a singer, and as a person. Did an interview with her once -- a lovely experience.

P.S. In general, I'm a Mandel fan. His Alban Berg-influenced score for "Point Blank" is something else.

[Blue Train]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

Always wondered about that. You know a psychologist/psychiatrist would have had a field day with it.

I find his penchant for "Emily" to be far more disturbing.

Never saw the film it comes from and just checked the lyrics for the song itself. Can you give more detail on why for us young'uns?

Because it too is by the Mandel and because IMO it's kind of a whiney/wimpy piece of music, as annoying in its own way as "The Shadow of Your Smile" -- though many talented jazz musicians obviously have felt otherwise.

OTOH, the film itself is darn good IIRC, though I admit to having a soft spot for Julie Andrews -- as an actress, a singer, and as a person. Did an interview with her once -- a lovely experience.

P.S. In general, I'm a Mandel fan. His Alban Berg-influenced score for "Point Blank" is something else.

Okay, so not anything to do with the suicide thing....which is what I thought you meant...and couldn't figure it out. More a commentary on the song itself.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Blue Train

[Larry Kart]

exactly; and that Rusell/Bley solo was exactly what I was thinking about.

Just btw to reiterate on the suicide thing - I knew his wife in the last few years, and I saw him on occassion, and he was quite obviously and deliberately trying to drug himself to death.

And of course near the end of his life he added to his repertoire The Theme from Mash also known as "Suicide is Painless".

Always wondered about that. You know a psychologist/psychiatrist would have had a field day with it.

I find his penchant for "Emily" to be far more disturbing.

Never saw the film it comes from and just checked the lyrics for the song itself. Can you give more detail on why for us young'uns?

Because it too is by the Mandel and because IMO it's kind of a whiney/wimpy piece of music, as annoying in its own way as "The Shadow of Your Smile" -- though many talented jazz musicians obviously have felt otherwise.

OTOH, the film itself is darn good IIRC, though I admit to having a soft spot for Julie Andrews -- as an actress, a singer, and as a person. Did an interview with her once -- a lovely experience.

P.S. In general, I'm a Mandel fan. His Alban Berg-influenced score for "Point Blank" is something else.

Okay, so not anything to do with the suicide thing....which is what I thought you meant...and couldn't figure it out. More a commentary on the song itself.

I did kind of mean the suicide thing. "Emily" makes me want to slit my wrists.