Clifford Brown and Sonny Rollins

[Deepak]

I've been enjoying the Live at the Bee Hive LP. I'm looking for recommendations for any other live albums these two have recorded. Thanks.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Deepak

[Clunky]

easy.....everything they recorded together on EmArcy & Prestige

[Larry Kart]

Don't think there are any other "live" Brown-Rollins albums. There is, however, an excellent "live" album by the Brown-Roach-Harold Land Quintet, with some tracks by the earlier version of the group with Teddy Edwards.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000001OTF/ref=dm_rogue_cd

[Clunky]

easy.....everything they recorded together on EmArcy & Prestige

apols for not noting "live" recordings. Rollins is with CB on Brownie Lives! on a well known Spanish label. No links allowed but sound is good enough and performance is excellent IIRC.

[mjzee]

Aren't there lots of live releases on Philology? I'm not familiar with any specific releases, though.

[Deepak]

Don't think there are any other "live" Brown-Rollins albums. There is, however, an excellent "live" album by the Brown-Roach-Harold Land Quintet, with some tracks by the earlier version of the group with Teddy Edwards.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000001OTF/ref=dm_rogue_cd

I will check this out, thanks

easy.....everything they recorded together on EmArcy & Prestige

apols for not noting "live" recordings. Rollins is with CB on Brownie Lives! on a well known Spanish label. No links allowed but sound is good enough and performance is excellent IIRC.

This is the dates at Basin Street and Carnegie Hall, brilliant found it on CD.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Deepak

[Milestones]

^{A record called Pure Genius, Vol. 1. It appeared in the 80s and I don't think it has ever appeared on CD--but certainly worth hearing.}

[king ubu]

Roach once said (in some interview I read, many years ago), that the GNP was a boot too ... and that the blurb "from the personal collection of Mrs Brown" was a blatant lie as the tapes came from him ... no idea what's the truth (or if there is any).

[jlhoots]

Don't think there are any other "live" Brown-Rollins albums. There is, however, an excellent "live" album by the Brown-Roach-Harold Land Quintet, with some tracks by the earlier version of the group with Teddy Edwards.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000001OTF/ref=dm_rogue_cd

easy.....everything they recorded together on EmArcy & Prestige

apols for not noting "live" recordings. Rollins is with CB on Brownie Lives! on a well known Spanish label. No links allowed but sound is good enough and performance is excellent IIRC.

This is the dates at Basin Street and Carnegie Hall, brilliant found it on CD.

Basin Street is great - but not "live".

Edited November 7, 2013 by jlhoots

[Clunky]

Don't think there are any other "live" Brown-Rollins albums. There is, however, an excellent "live" album by the Brown-Roach-Harold Land Quintet, with some tracks by the earlier version of the group with Teddy Edwards. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000001OTF/ref=dm_rogue_cd

easy.....everything they recorded together on EmArcy & Prestige

apols for not noting "live" recordings. Rollins is with CB on Brownie Lives! on a well known Spanish label. No links allowed but sound is good enough and performance is excellent IIRC. This is the dates at Basin Street and Carnegie Hall, brilliant found it on CD. Basin Street is great - but not "live".

Brownie Lives! is live and purports to be from Basin Street. The EmArcy session released as " Basin Street" is indeed a studio recording.

[Larry Kart]

Roach once said (in some interview I read, many years ago), that the GNP was a boot too ... and that the blurb "from the personal collection of Mrs Brown" was a blatant lie as the tapes came from him ... no idea what's the truth (or if there is any).

Hmm -- that album came out on LP on GNP within a year or so after the event IIRC. I certainly bought it in the 1950s. And if the tapes came from Max, how could they be a "boot" unless they were stolen from Max? OTOH, it's fairly clear on some tracks that the sound was picked up both from stage mikes and from the house p.a. system -- there's a post-echo from the latter source.

[Stereojack]

Roach once said (in some interview I read, many years ago), that the GNP was a boot too ... and that the blurb "from the personal collection of Mrs Brown" was a blatant lie as the tapes came from him ... no idea what's the truth (or if there is any).

I wonder if you might be confusing this with the Mainstream LP entitled Daahoud, I think. It purports to be an audition tape presented to Bob Shad before he recorded them. In fact, it contains outtakes from the Emarcy sessions, all later included on the CD box. The GNP album was first issued on 10" LP, possibly before Brownie's death.

[king ubu]

Okay - but it was Max then who mixed it up, not me ... he was talking about the GNP with that widow-blurb on the cover - and he thus made it sound like it was issued only after Brownie's death.

Don't know about "Daahoud" - got the CD box though (and needless to say I love it).

Sorry for this wrong info - but as I said, it comes from Max (or it was a *very* bad goof by some Swiss or German writer, who knows).

Btw, since this is about Brownie and Sonny Rollins - put me in the Brownie and Land camp there! No matter how much love I've got for Rollins (lots and lots of!), I still get the chills each time I hear "Land's End" ... and all of "Study in Brown"!

Obviously, the Bee Hive material is very different (and Nicky Hill's no slouch either!) and very exciting - but all things considered, "Study in Brown" is probably my desert island Brownie.

[Deepak]

Okay - but it was Max then who mixed it up, not me ... he was talking about the GNP with that widow-blurb on the cover - and he thus made it sound like it was issued only after Brownie's death.

Don't know about "Daahoud" - got the CD box though (and needless to say I love it).

Sorry for this wrong info - but as I said, it comes from Max (or it was a *very* bad goof by some Swiss or German writer, who knows).

Btw, since this is about Brownie and Sonny Rollins - put me in the Brownie and Land camp there! No matter how much love I've got for Rollins (lots and lots of!), I still get the chills each time I hear "Land's End" ... and all of "Study in Brown"!

Obviously, the Bee Hive material is very different (and Nicky Hill's no slouch either!) and very exciting - but all things considered, "Study in Brown" is probably my desert island Brownie.

I love Brown/Land, and have plenty of it from the various vintage Emarcy LPs and the recent Clifford Brown/Max Roach Mosaic set

[Blue Train]

Good as any place to ask, but anyone know why Mingus didn't like Brown?

http://mingusmingusmingus.com/mingus/blindfold-test

[Blue Train]

There is, however, an excellent "live" album by the Brown-Roach-Harold Land Quintet, with some tracks by the earlier version of the group with Teddy Edwards.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000001OTF/ref=dm_rogue_cd

A certain label released an unedited version. Since it appears a link isn't allowed....hopefully it's safe to say California is in the title.

[ElginThompson]

Kicking myself for not picking up the Bee Hive set when I had a chance a few years ago.

[paul secor]

Good as any place to ask, but anyone know why Mingus didn't like Brown?

http://mingusmingusmingus.com/mingus/blindfold-test

I don't know but from his comments it seems as if he loved Fats Navarro's playing and felt that Clifford's playing was derivative.

[Quasimado]

I suggest you do a search for a 3 CD set recorded live by the band at the Cotton Club (Cleveland Ohio) in 1956. A fine production ...

Q

[John L]

Yes. In addition to the Cotton Club recordings, there is also the last recording of Clifford Brown (with Sonny Rollins) at the Continental Restaurant from June 18, 1956. it was also released not long ago as Last Concert on a label that we are not allowed to cite here. You should be able to find it.

[king ubu]

Loved reading Mingus' comments - most interesting!

[Deepak]

Kicking myself for not picking up the Bee Hive set when I had a chance a few years ago.

If you can play vinyl the 2 LP set can be had for cheap

[erhodes]

There is more "live" material by this group than there is studio material.

Rochester, NY, Town Casino – February 26, 1956

Introduction :52

Daahoud 6:36

Announcement and interview w/ Max Roach 1:09

Round Midnight 8:14

Announcement :38

Blues Walk 7:12

Closing announcement :50

New York, Basin Street Club – April 28, 1956

Valse Hot 7:43

I Feel A Song Comin’ On 5:17

New York, Basin Street Club – May 6, 1956

What’s New 3:16

Daahoud 5:22

Sweet Clifford 5:37

Cleveland, OH, Cotton Club – May 28, 29, June 1, 1956

Introduction by Clifford Brown 1:29

Take the A Train 13:39

Introduction by Max Roach 0:39

Darn That Dream (featuring Sonny Rollins) 3:55

Intermission announcement by Clifford Brown 0:35

Nice Work If You Can Get It (incomplete) 18:51

Introduction by Max Roach :44

Get Happy (incomplete) 22:21

Valse Hot (fragment) 3:43

Delilah 13.26

Diggin’ Diz (Lover)* 14:59

Jordu 17:26

Early 1956, Chicago

More Than You Know (featuring Sonny Rollins) 3:50

Embraceable You (featuring Clifford Brown) 3:18

I’ll Remember April (fragment) 14:52

Wee Dot (fragment) 8:44

I’ll See You In My Dreams 4:54

These Foolish Things (featuring George Morrow) 3:17

Untitled Blues (incomplete) 14:08

1956, Unknown location

I’ll Remember April 18:47

What’s New 3:50

Daahoud 10:20

Lover Man 6:32

52^nd Street Theme 6:18

“Pure Genius, vol. 1”, Elektra Musician E1-60026

Norfolk, VA, Continental Restaurant – June 18, 1956

Introduction 1:07

Just One Of Those Things 20:02

You Go To My Head 8:52

Good Bait (incomplete) 15:23

One For My Baby and One More For the Road 4:07

(featuring Richie Powell)

Someone To Watch Over Me (featuring Sonny Rollins) 4:04

Announcement :51

What’s New (featuring Clifford Brown) 4:04

Announcement by Max Roach :38

These Foolish Things (featuring George Morrow) 3:38

I Get A Kick Out Of You 24:33

Ending Annoucements by Max Roach

All of this material has been issued by now and all of it is bootleg...or public domain...except possibly the "Pure Genius, vol. 1" release, which is the one that has the LaRue Brown-Watson quote and reference (not the GNP).

A lot of these times will change depending on what discographical source you use. And there are questions about the "Early 1956, Chicago" vs. the "Cotton Club" attributions. In particular, one or more of the last three items I have down as the Cotton Club may be from Chicago. And, no, there is no specific indication in any source that the Chicago venue might be the Bee Hive.

Many of the pieces marked as "fragments" or "incomplete" are really that. E.g., one lengthy fragment is mostly a Max Roach drum solo. OTOH, some of the longer tracks - "Just One of Those Things", "Good Bait" and "I Get A Kick Out of You" from the Continental Lounge and "A Train" and "Nice Work" from the Cotton Club - are unlike anything on the studio dates, if only because the length allows for some stretching out that doesn't happen in the same way on the shorter pieces.

Note that there are two air checks that actually originate from Basin Street as opposed to the Emarcy studio date which is just named for it. Not the same thing.

As far as whether the "Pure Genius" date was in fact a boot, I have no idea. The cover goes to greater than usual lengths to cite both Max and LaRue as being involved in the production but the truth could be quite different. The comments cited would have to be about this release, though. The GNP is another thing altogether.

Ed Rhodes

[king ubu]

... the "Pure Genius, vol. 1" release, which is the one that has the LaRue Brown-Watson quote and reference (not the GNP).

Dang! Guess then it was my mix-up after all, sorry about that!

[marcello]

I believe that the "Pure Genius" recording was from one of the tapes, of which there was three, that were in the car when Clifford died. Mrs. Brown lent one of the tapes to someone who made a copy. I may be confusing this with the recent "Cotton Club" recording, but I know that there are three tapes and two have never seen the light of day.

This information came to me last year when I tried to facilitate another live recording, made in Rochester at the Band Box in 1956. I heard the tapes from the original reel and a cassette copy for a record company that was trying to purchase that tape and had dealings with the Brown estate to release it along with the three that were in the car.

The Rochester tape is a very good quality, but only two of the songs were complete ( a burning "52nd Street Theme" and a wandering "Easter Parade". The performance was on Easter weekend). A deal couldn't be made, alas.