Frank Wess RIP

[Mark Stryker]

Mark -- I re-read that review last night after I sent the post and discovered that it said the band played only one Wess piece and that that piece was arranged by Toshiko, not Wess. Whatever, my memory was that Wess's piece sounded very different from her own compositions (his a somewhat Strayhorn-esque and/or Dameron-like carpet of shifting colors rather than, as with Toshiko, something that sounded like it had been conceived for a two-horn frontline and then expanded). Later on I mentioned how I felt about Toshiko's writing by and large to a friend who is a talented veteran composer-arranger-bandleader-instrumentalist, and he agreed with me in detail (IIRC he said, citing examples, that her sense of how things "sound" vertically is often close to mechanical-random and that her sidemen often found the results frustrating). Finally, a day or two after that review ran I got a post-card from Bill Russo (hadn't met him at the time and somehow never would) saying "right on" or words to that effect.

In any case, arguably self-serving stuff aside, all this came to mind because that was my first encounter with Wess' post-Basie writing, and it was a revelation.

That's a complaint I hear about her writing -- that it works vertically but not horizontally, that is the chords are all voiced individually without concern for melodic voice leading within the inner parts. So, unlike say with Ellington, where every part is its own rewarding and sometimes independent melody, her inner parts lack melodic content; they just fill out the chord. This can be slippery analysis, depending on how much counterpoint you get going within the inner parts or how you use individual voices within the context of a harmonized sections. Thad's inner parts are more melodically oriented in some cases but in other cases they also just filling out the harmony. I understand the criticism but ultimately it doesn't bother me really because the other formal elements are so distinctive and there's a strong narrative flow in the charts -- "Quadrille Anyone," "Long Yellow Road," "Since Perry/Yet Another Tear," Transcience," "Strive for Jive," "Minamata," "Elegy." For me it's a unique, stimulating voice, a personalized take on the tradition with her Japanese heritage coming into play on certain works. My opinion, obviously.

So, did Wess ever write full big band arrangements for other ensembles?

Edited November 1, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[ElginThompson]

Rest in peace.

[Larry Kart]

Mark -- I re-read that review last night after I sent the post and discovered that it said the band played only one Wess piece and that that piece was arranged by Toshiko, not Wess. Whatever, my memory was that Wess's piece sounded very different from her own compositions (his a somewhat Strayhorn-esque and/or Dameron-like carpet of shifting colors rather than, as with Toshiko, something that sounded like it had been conceived for a two-horn frontline and then expanded). Later on I mentioned how I felt about Toshiko's writing by and large to a friend who is a talented veteran composer-arranger-bandleader-instrumentalist, and he agreed with me in detail (IIRC he said, citing examples, that her sense of how things "sound" vertically is often close to mechanical-random and that her sidemen often found the results frustrating). Finally, a day or two after that review ran I got a post-card from Bill Russo (hadn't met him at the time and somehow never would) saying "right on" or words to that effect.

In any case, arguably self-serving stuff aside, all this came to mind because that was my first encounter with Wess' post-Basie writing, and it was a revelation.

That's a complaint I hear about her writing -- that it works vertically but not horizontally, that is the chords are all voiced individually without concern for melodic voice leading within the inner parts. So, unlike say with Ellington, where every part is its own rewarding and sometimes independent melody, her inner parts lack melodic content; they just fill out the chord. This can be slippery analysis, depending on how much counterpoint you get going within the inner parts or how you use individual voices within the context of a harmonized sections. Thad's inner parts are more melodically oriented in some cases but in other cases they also just filling out the harmony. I understand the criticism but ultimately it doesn't bother me really because the other formal elements are so distinctive and there's a strong narrative flow in the charts -- "Quadrille Anyone," "Long Yellow Road," "Since Perry/Yet Another Tear," Transcience," "Strive for Jive," "Minamata," "Elegy." For me it's a unique, stimulating voice, a personalized take on the tradition with her Japanese heritage coming into play on certain works. My opinion, obviously.

So, did Wess ever write full big band arrangements for other ensembles?

Actually, we're pretty much saying the opposite here, no? -- you, that her music works vertically but not horizontally; me, that it works horizontally (kind of) but not vertically. If this can be resolved (and I may in fact just be dead wrong in what I thought I heard, both in listening to the band and in what I heard from my musician friend -- and I can't find right now the only Toshiko album I have and thus can't check), it's that I believe that she thinks horizontally up to a point but, as you say, "without concern for melodic voice leading within the inner parts." To me, this then can result in passages where the vertical relationships when much or all of the ensemble is involved don't really "speak," aren't particularly meaningful or even coherent.

Don't know whether Wess wrote much for big bands post Basie, but he certainly wrote for medium-sized ensembles (e.g. a nonet), and what I've heard of that music was handsome.

[Mark Stryker]

Mark -- I re-read that review last night after I sent the post and discovered that it said the band played only one Wess piece and that that piece was arranged by Toshiko, not Wess. Whatever, my memory was that Wess's piece sounded very different from her own compositions (his a somewhat Strayhorn-esque and/or Dameron-like carpet of shifting colors rather than, as with Toshiko, something that sounded like it had been conceived for a two-horn frontline and then expanded). Later on I mentioned how I felt about Toshiko's writing by and large to a friend who is a talented veteran composer-arranger-bandleader-instrumentalist, and he agreed with me in detail (IIRC he said, citing examples, that her sense of how things "sound" vertically is often close to mechanical-random and that her sidemen often found the results frustrating). Finally, a day or two after that review ran I got a post-card from Bill Russo (hadn't met him at the time and somehow never would) saying "right on" or words to that effect.

In any case, arguably self-serving stuff aside, all this came to mind because that was my first encounter with Wess' post-Basie writing, and it was a revelation.

That's a complaint I hear about her writing -- that it works vertically but not horizontally, that is the chords are all voiced individually without concern for melodic voice leading within the inner parts. So, unlike say with Ellington, where every part is its own rewarding and sometimes independent melody, her inner parts lack melodic content; they just fill out the chord. This can be slippery analysis, depending on how much counterpoint you get going within the inner parts or how you use individual voices within the context of a harmonized sections. Thad's inner parts are more melodically oriented in some cases but in other cases they also just filling out the harmony. I understand the criticism but ultimately it doesn't bother me really because the other formal elements are so distinctive and there's a strong narrative flow in the charts -- "Quadrille Anyone," "Long Yellow Road," "Since Perry/Yet Another Tear," Transcience," "Strive for Jive," "Minamata," "Elegy." For me it's a unique, stimulating voice, a personalized take on the tradition with her Japanese heritage coming into play on certain works. My opinion, obviously.

So, did Wess ever write full big band arrangements for other ensembles?

Actually, we're pretty much saying the opposite here, no? -- you, that her music works vertically but not horizontally; me, that it works horizontally (kind of) but not vertically. If this can be resolved (and I may in fact just be dead wrong in what I thought I heard, both in listening to the band and in what I heard from my musician friend -- and I can't find right now the only Toshiko album I have and thus can't check), it's that I believe that she thinks horizontally up to a point but, as you say, "without concern for melodic voice leading within the inner parts." To me, this then can result in passages where the vertical relationships when much or all of the ensemble is involved don't really "speak," aren't particularly meaningful or even coherent.

Don't know whether Wess wrote much for big bands post Basie, but he certainly wrote for medium-sized ensembles (e.g. a nonet), and what I've heard of that music was handsome.

Oops. I turned around the terms by confusing and conflating a couple of issues into some slippery vocabularly. You're right. Sorry about that.

Yes, the music works better in terms of the melodic trajectory of its lead lines (horizontally) rather than the harmonic coherance of how she voices throughout the ensemble (vertically). Getting into the substance we are on the same page: The inner parts don't really work that well, contributing to your perception that the music overall is not speaking clearly and my perception that they're just filling in the chords without creating individual melodies.Having said that, however, I fall back on my previous conclusion: Whatever issues there may be vertically, the other strengths of the writing carry me through.

Coda: To be clear: Thad's music is vertically unimpeachable, even when inner parts are simply filling out the chords.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[sgcim]

Mark -- I re-read that review last night after I sent the post and discovered that it said the band played only one Wess piece and that that piece was arranged by Toshiko, not Wess. Whatever, my memory was that Wess's piece sounded very different from her own compositions (his a somewhat Strayhorn-esque and/or Dameron-like carpet of shifting colors rather than, as with Toshiko, something that sounded like it had been conceived for a two-horn frontline and then expanded). Later on I mentioned how I felt about Toshiko's writing by and large to a friend who is a talented veteran composer-arranger-bandleader-instrumentalist, and he agreed with me in detail (IIRC he said, citing examples, that her sense of how things "sound" vertically is often close to mechanical-random and that her sidemen often found the results frustrating). Finally, a day or two after that review ran I got a post-card from Bill Russo (hadn't met him at the time and somehow never would) saying "right on" or words to that effect.

In any case, arguably self-serving stuff aside, all this came to mind because that was my first encounter with Wess' post-Basie writing, and it was a revelation.

That's a complaint I hear about her writing -- that it works vertically but not horizontally, that is the chords are all voiced individually without concern for melodic voice leading within the inner parts. So, unlike say with Ellington, where every part is its own rewarding and sometimes independent melody, her inner parts lack melodic content; they just fill out the chord. This can be slippery analysis, depending on how much counterpoint you get going within the inner parts or how you use individual voices within the context of a harmonized sections. Thad's inner parts are more melodically oriented in some cases but in other cases they also just filling out the harmony. I understand the criticism but ultimately it doesn't bother me really because the other formal elements are so distinctive and there's a strong narrative flow in the charts -- "Quadrille Anyone," "Long Yellow Road," "Since Perry/Yet Another Tear," Transcience," "Strive for Jive," "Minamata," "Elegy." For me it's a unique, stimulating voice, a personalized take on the tradition with her Japanese heritage coming into play on certain works. My opinion, obviously.

So, did Wess ever write full big band arrangements for other ensembles?

I've been listening to the WKCR Frank Wess Memorial broadcast for almost 16 hours, and the only post-Basie big band charts that I've heard that Wess wrote were for Clark Terry's Bad Little Big Band back in the 70s.

The sound quality and playing on the "Live At Buddy's Place" LP wasn't anything to write home about, so I can't comment about that,

I'm listening to his flute playing this second with Basie, and it's pure heaven.

I didn't like his tenor playing when he used all that fucking vibrato in his early days, but as soon as he lost that shit things got much better.

The things with him and Frank Foster are the definition of great jazz!

I saw The New York Jazz Quartet years ago and was bugged by Roland Hanna's whole concept, and based on the recordings they've been playing today, that feeling hasn't changed much.

Thankfully they've been playing most of the Basie shit, and it don't get much better than that...

Edited November 2, 2013 by sgcim

[jazzbo]

Listened to a few of the Savoy sessions last night. RIP Frank.

[Peter Friedman]

These 2 CDs have compositions and arrangements by Frank Wess

The Frank Wess Orchestra - Entre Nous - Concord Jazz

Order In The Court - Arranged and composed by Frank Wess

Entre Nous - Arranged and composed by Frank Wess

Shiny Stockings - Arranged by Frank Wess

Lover - Arranged by Frank Wess

**************************************************************************************

Frank Wess - Tryin' To Make My Blues Turn Green - Concord Jazz

Composed and arranged by Frank Wess

Come Back To Me

Tryin" To Make My Blues Turn Green

And So It Is

Short Circuit

Surprise! Surprise

Small Talk

Arranged by Frank Wess

Listen To The Dawn

Alfie

[king ubu]

LA Times obit:

http://www.latimes.com/obituaries/la-me-frank-wess-20131102,0,7824009.story#axzz2jZiCdlHM

[mikeweil]

Always good stuff.

I didn't know my edition of the Bennie Green was missing a track. I'll have to look out the Blue Moon version. Or will I? My copy, issued by Charly on the Atlantis label, has 6 tracks...

MG

Juggin' Around (Foster)

Going South (Foster)

Jim Dog (Ammons)

Sermonette (Adderley)

Little Ditty (Wess)

Swingin' For Benny (Green)

That's all there is.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Always good stuff.

I didn't know my edition of the Bennie Green was missing a track. I'll have to look out the Blue Moon version. Or will I? My copy, issued by Charly on the Atlantis label, has 6 tracks...

MG

Juggin' Around (Foster)

Going South (Foster)

Jim Dog (Ammons)

Sermonette (Adderley)

Little Ditty (Wess)

Swingin' For Benny (Green)

That's all there is.

Interesting. I wonder how come a Charly LP has the right number of cuts, when...

Just noticed you said a track was SUBSTITUTED. So this is my track list - all the tune titles are there, but in a different order:

Juggin' around

Sermonette

Swinging for Benny

Little ditty

Going south

Jim dog

Que?

Slaps head - go back to bed Manuel.

MG

[colinmce]

Kevin Whitehead did a very nice, very poignant review of Wess' last album for NPR:

http://www.npr.org/2014/02/11/275265524/in-session-frank-wess-magic-201-offers-one-last-lesson

[Cyril]

Kevin Whitehead did a very nice, very poignant review of Wess' last album for NPR:

http://www.npr.org/2014/02/11/275265524/in-session-frank-wess-magic-201-offers-one-last-lesson

Thank you for sharing,colinmce!

[jlhoots]

Both 101 & 201 are very nice.