McCoy Tyner

[BillF]

On 12/12/2018 at 2:52 PM, Peter Friedman said:

I especially like McCoy's Impulse albums. His playing was less percussive, and more to my taste than most of his later sessions.

My favorite McCoy Tyner was during the 1960s' in a sideman role. He recorded during those years with a very long list of musicians aside from Coltrane. I counted at least 14 different musicians he recorded with in the 60s'. 

Curtis Fuller, The Jazztet, Freddie Hubbard, Julian Priester, Art Blakey, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Grant Green, J.J. Johnson, Stanley Turrentine, Milt Jackson, Donald Byrd and Bobby Hutcherson.

[Guy Berger]

3 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

I agree.  In general, the second half of McCoy's Milestone output appeals to me more than the first.  My desert-island McCoy is Horizon.  

I know that records like Sahara and Enlightenment and Atlantis made MUCH bigger splashes at the time.  Those early Milestones are probably Tyner's most important records. ... And I enjoy them, but not as much as the subsequent LPs.

Among the earlier Milestones, my favorite is Sama Layuca.  It has an ebb and flow.  McCoy's relentlessness is balanced by Hutcherson's lyricism.       

I agree that Tyner’s early Milestones can sometimes be excessively monochrome. (They have other strengths.)  Also agreed that Sama Layuca is a nice exception.

But I wonder if this could have been averted somewhat with different recording choices.

[HutchFan]

Just now, Guy Berger said:

I agree that Tyner’s early Milestones can sometimes be excessively monochrome. (They have other strengths.)  Also agreed that Sama Layuca is a nice exception.

But I wonder if this could have been averted somewhat with different recording choices.

Guy --  By "recording choices" do you mean audio engineering / AQ?

Just seeking clarification on your point.

 

[T.D.]

On 12/12/2018 at 9:52 AM, Peter Friedman said:

I especially like McCoy's Impulse albums. His playing was less percussive, and more to my taste than most of his later sessions.

My favorite McCoy Tyner was during the 1960s' in a sideman role. He recorded during those years with a very long list of musicians aside from Coltrane. I counted at least 14 different musicians he recorded with in the 60s'. 

Curtis Fuller, The Jazztet, Freddie Hubbard, Julian Priester, Art Blakey, Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Grant Green, J.J. Johnson, Stanley Turrentine, Milt Jackson, Donald Byrd and Bobby Hutcherson.

Also Hank Mobley. I recently listened to the Mobley '60s Mosaic and was mildly surprised to hear Tyner on some of the sessions.

Edited December 26, 2021 by T.D.

[Ken Dryden]

I have an extensive McCoy Tyner collection and the only real disappointment for me was the Columbia LP Looking Out, a dud compared to the rest of his discography. I feel like the Milestone years were particularly strong, especially the live albums.

[Guy Berger]

3 hours ago, HutchFan said:

Guy --  By "recording choices" do you mean audio engineering / AQ?

Just seeking clarification on your point.

 

Yeah.  My gut is you could have (at least to some extent) made Sahara sound like Asante or vice versa. The underlying music just isn’t that different

[Gheorghe]

Anyway I wanted to open a topic but glad to see we have one about McCoy Tyner.

I would say that McCoy Tyner as an influence on other upcoming pianists was as important than Bud Powell before him. 

Bud Powell would have hunderttousends of followers who would take some influences of his style into their own piano playing, that´s the 40´s and 50´s . 

And then the next great influence on others might have been McCoy. I´m glad I saw several steps of his career not in historical manner like Bud (who died when I was still only 6 years old) but live by listening to him, see him on stage, hear others who might have got some influences from him, and buying his records and waiting for the next record to appear. 

In the time of 1977/78 I was in the last two years of high school or "Lyceum" or as you might call it and we guys would discuss new upcoming releases of the musicians we admired, and at least two were with McCoy Tyner: Super Trios, and "Milestone Allstars Rollins Tyner Carter" . 

IMHO, McCoy Tyner has a similar important role on piano style like Bud Powell had before him.....

[BillF]

1 hour ago, Gheorghe said:

Anyway I wanted to open a topic but glad to see we have one about McCoy Tyner.

I would say that McCoy Tyner as an influence on other upcoming pianists was as important than Bud Powell before him. 

Bud Powell would have hunderttousends of followers who would take some influences of his style into their own piano playing, that´s the 40´s and 50´s . 

And then the next great influence on others might have been McCoy. I´m glad I saw several steps of his career not in historical manner like Bud (who died when I was still only 6 years old) but live by listening to him, see him on stage, hear others who might have got some influences from him, and buying his records and waiting for the next record to appear. 

In the time of 1977/78 I was in the last two years of high school or "Lyceum" or as you might call it and we guys would discuss new upcoming releases of the musicians we admired, and at least two were with McCoy Tyner: Super Trios, and "Milestone Allstars Rollins Tyner Carter" . 

IMHO, McCoy Tyner has a similar important role on piano style like Bud Powell had before him.....

Bill Evans?

[Gheorghe]

1 hour ago, BillF said:

Bill Evans?

Maybe he was not so popular among upcoming piano players at my time. Those who studied at Jazz Conservatorium under the great Fritz Pauer were told to listen to Bud and transcribe pieces, and to McCoy I think. 
Bill Evans I don´t remember ever coming to Austria. I heard his slower, a bit laid back  approach on "Kind of Blue" and one live album of the sextet from the late fifties, but not much more. I think there was a group of people who listened much to him, but it seems that was a more narrow circle around here. At least, among the people I knew and played with, he had a lesser role than people like Miles, Trane (who also came to Austria when he was alive), and from that point further.....
Once I got a sheet of "Waltz for Debbie" and played it from sheet and some chorusses on it, but forgot it after that. As much as I remember it sounded very very romantic, but in another kind than the most ballads I heard and played. It´s more like some romantic classic pianist from the 19th century, like Robert Schuhmann  I think. But I´m not really an insider in that category....

[sidewinder]

Looking at the Bill Evans itinerary covering 79-80 in the La Barbera book he seemed to have got as far as Stuttgart for one gig and one late-arranged private party in Germany at the end of the ‘80 tour but not Austria. Quite a few appearances in Italy though. I think Wim Wigt had a hand in putting the dates together.

Anyway, I digress....

Edited December 27, 2021 by sidewinder

[Gheorghe]

16 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

 

 

Anyway, I digress....

Well, maybe because BillF and sure a lot of other readers who might be Bill Evans fans wondered why I praised McCoy as having been as much influencal like Bud before that and omitted the name of Bill Evans and explained why. 
For a group musician it was always important for me to fit in the formed band or the leading soloists and during the 70´s a gread deal of Sax Players liked Trane and Post-Trane stuff and modal. You coudn´t do that on piano without having McCoy Tyner as a kind of inspiration from the start, a kind of "schooling" by listening to at least some stuff he did, to fit in what was called by musicians and audience. That means not only musicians, but music lovers too. Maybe the Bill Evans clique was a very close and more reclusive one, since the folks you could talk to and meet every night in the joints and at concerts it was more the McCoy type of music that was heard, if it was about piano....

[Guy Berger]

14 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Maybe he was not so popular among upcoming piano players at my time. Those who studied at Jazz Conservatorium under the great Fritz Pauer were told to listen to Bud and transcribe pieces, and to McCoy I think. 

Hmmm. I like McCoy Tyner waaaaay more than I like Bill Evans, but Evans’s influence was huge.  Three super-significant acolytes (Hancock, Corea, Jarrett) and impact on everyone from Oscar Peterson to ECM

[JSngry]

Evans was a safe exit ramp to a defendable suburb  Shit was getting hot and not everybody wanted to be there for that 

McCoy became one as well, but it took a helluva lot longer and was far less his own doing. McCoy fanned the flames and took the heat.

[Guy Berger]

48 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Evans was a safe exit ramp to a defendable suburb  Shit was getting hot and not everybody wanted to be there for that 

McCoy became one as well, but it took a helluva lot longer and was far less his own doing. McCoy fanned the flames and took the heat.

You could use Evans for good or for evil. Tyner was mostly just good

[JSngry]

11 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

You could use Evans for good or for evil.

After all these years, I've decided on Paul Bley. Not an exist ramp, more like a loop.

Road trip, anybody?

[Guy Berger]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

After all these years, I've decided on Paul Bley. Not an exist ramp, more like a loop.

Road trip, anybody?

That’s the upgrade that Paul Motian and Gary Peacock got at the pianist rental agency!

[DMP]

Tyner seemed to have a low point after his run at Blue Note, sort of lost in the shuffle. But in early 1972, he showed up at the Diplomat Lounge (a short lived club in the East Liberty section here in Pittsburgh) with a new band - Sonny Fortune,  Calvin Hill, Alphonse Mouzon - they had just recorded “Sahara,” but it wasn’t released yet - it was one of the most memorable nights of music in my years of listening -  nobody moved the whole hour and a half set...  That performance announced he was back for good!

[felser]

43 minutes ago, DMP said:

Tyner seemed to have a low point after his run at Blue Note, sort of lost in the shuffle. But in early 1972, he showed up at the Diplomat Lounge (a short lived club in the East Liberty section here in Pittsburgh) with a new band - Sonny Fortune,  Calvin Hill, Alphonse Mouzon - they had just recorded “Sahara,” but it wasn’t released yet - it was one of the most memorable nights of music in my years of listening -  nobody moved the whole hour and a half set...  That performance announced he was back for good!

Looking at sessionography, you're right!  He didn't record anything in 1971 at all, leader or sideman.  BTW, I lived in East Liberty (S. Aiken Ave.) 1964-1965, pre-renaissance.  I was 9-10.

Edited December 30, 2021 by felser

[JSngry]

and that was the difference between his last BNs and his first Milestones - he had a totally together working band and had recorded with it.

You can't beat that combination, except for adding the third ingredient of having a hot working band that was recording together that turns people on from every angle.

McCoy certainly hit that trifecta!

 

[Ken Dryden]

I first heard McCoy Tyner in the 1970s leading his sextet at the Great Southeastern Music Hall on Peachtree in Atlanta. His trio (Avery Sharpe & Aaron Scott) appeared in Chattanooga in 1991 and I heard the same trio a few years later at Just Jazz in St. Louis. Every show was memorable.

 

[Gheorghe]

11 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I first heard McCoy Tyner in the 1970s leading his sextet at the Great Southeastern Music Hall on Peachtree in Atlanta. His trio (Avery Sharpe & Aaron Scott) appeared in Chattanooga in 1991 and I heard the same trio a few years later at Just Jazz in St. Louis. Every show was memorable.

 

Great to read you also  saw and heard  McCoy Tyner live in a sextet format. In my case it was also with Avery Sharpe on bass, Al Foster on drums, a percussionist I don´t remember his name,  a saxophonist I don´t remember his name, and Ran Blake on violin....

During those great years for the Milestone Label I think the only occasion he did a trio record was the "Supertrios" from 1977 which we all had or heard at a place where they had it. 

For BN I think he didn´t make a trio album. 

Anyway, I love key role pianists like Bud, Monk, Horace, Tyner, Herbie, but I love them most when they have at least one hornplayer added, and McCoy was great in having groups. 

[sidewinder]

That would be John Blake and not Ran Blake on violin and my guess is perhaps Joe Ford on alto in the front line. The group I saw also had John Lee on bass and Wilby Fletcher on drums. John Blake wearing, as I recall it, exotic all-white 3 piece suit a la Saturday Night Fever !

Edited December 31, 2021 by sidewinder

[Gheorghe]

1 hour ago, sidewinder said:

That would be John Blake and not Ran Blake on violin and my guess is perhaps Joe Ford on alto in the front line. The group I saw also had John Lee on bass and Wilby Fletcher on drums. John Blake wearing, as I recall it, exotic all-white 3 piece suit a la Saturday Night Fever !

Yes, Joe Ford was on saxophone, and it was Ran Blake and yes, he wore that 3 piece white suit. Great performance ! A trio track was "Moment´s Notice" very fast.

[sidewinder]

36 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:

Yes, Joe Ford was on saxophone, and it was Ran Blake and yes, he wore that 3 piece white suit. Great performance ! A trio track was "Moment´s Notice" very fast.

Obviously same tour I saw them on. 

Yes, trio version of ‘Moment’s Notice’ rings a bell. They also did stuff from ‘Horizon’ I think.

[JSngry]

Not Ran Blake, correct?