billy eckstine biography

[bichos]

Long overdue: a biography of singer and first be-bop Bandleader Billy eckstine!

cary ginell has written the Music and life of Billy eckstine. here is the blurb:

http://triblive.com/aande/books/4812552-74/eckstine-billy-american#axzz2iOna7PJu

i have it in front of me but don´t read it yet. but from a quick overview i would say it is informativ and not written in a "crouch-style"....

Keep boppin´

marcel

[Gheorghe]

thank you, bichos. Never thought there would be a Billy Eckstine bio.

I must admit I´m mostly interested in his bop years, the great days with Bird, Diz, Fats, Dex, Jug and all of em.

Love his singing, though I´m not necessarly a vocal fan, but his ballads great.

Only the later years from the 50´s on, that´s a bit too commercially for my tastes.....

[Big Beat Steve]

Cary Ginell spells quality in music history writing (though I haven't seen him in this stylistic context often yet ).

Wonder if the book might reveal new angles on the Mrs Eckstine/Stan Hasselgard involvement. Some say there seems to be a mystery there ...

[brownie]

Will be looking for that one!

Reminiscences should be plentiful.

Great admirer of Mr. B.'s singing!

[Gheorghe]

It´s too bad that the band wasn´t recorded properly.

Well, I love those Savoy sides from 1945-1947, but the really thing where you hear the band is on that Spotlite album "Mr. B. and the Band" where you really hear what they do.

[Fer Urbina]

It´s too bad that the band wasn´t recorded properly.

Well, I love those Savoy sides from 1945-1947, but the really thing where you hear the band is on that Spotlite album "Mr. B. and the Band" where you really hear what they do.

This Savoy reissue reunites all the studio and live recordings, if I'm not mistaken.

F

[AllenLowe]

I am a little wary of Ginell, who managed to write an entire bio of Milton Brown without once mentioning black musicians in any way, as an influence or parallel force to Western Swing; he also once got annoyed at me for suggesting that there was probably a lot of undocumented black music of the Southwesrt that had a powerful influence on white musicians. But most offensive is the Milton Brown book, which has literally no mention of African Americans.

[Big Beat Steve]

I must admit you've got a point there ...

[AllenLowe]

he's knowledgable; the Brown book was troubling. I do know from my experience on the old 78 list that he's one of those collectors with a bit of a chip on his shoulders about giving credit to White musicians; and I understand his feelings. But still, there's way to do it while giving a more balanced historical view, I think.

[medjuck]

It´s too bad that the band wasn´t recorded properly.

Well, I love those Savoy sides from 1945-1947, but the really thing where you hear the band is on that Spotlite album "Mr. B. and the Band" where you really hear what they do.

This Savoy reissue reunites all the studio and live recordings, if I'm not mistaken.

F

The band appeared a few times on the Jubilee radio shows (Fats, Jug,Budd Johnson Leo Parker, Blakey, Sarah Vaughn etc). I've got a couple

of them but am looking for the rest. Actually I see that I only have the FEb 19, 1945 broadcast. Anyone got any others?

f them but am looking for the rest.

[Gheorghe]

@medjuck: That´s what I´m talkin about. Those radio shows, we Europeans got them on the british Spotlite Label. This was a good label for unissued bop. Rare Bird like "Appartment Sessions", "The Band that Never Was" etc., and as I mentioned:

Billy Eckstine February 1945 "Mr. B and the Band", with the stars you mentioned. With the Theme Song "Blue ´n Boogie", and everything.

And that incredible MC Ernie "Bubbles" Whitman .

A great review of that stuff is on the Fats Navarro Biography (Rehak?) ......

During the 80´s I read in DB that Mr. B still had a lot of unissued material of that great band. How much would I like to listen to that.....

Actually , besides the few recordings we have (the 1945 Radio Shows are the best) the most we know about this band is from what told musicians who played with it and became great stars (Miles, Diz, Blakey). Each of them had fantastic memories about that Band.

Same about the 1943 Earl Hines band with Diz, Bird, Sarah, Mr. B., Shadow Wilson.....

[jazztrain]

Allen,

I read the Milton Brown book many years ago, so it's not fresh in my mind. However, just looking at the introduction (available as part of the "preview" version here: http://books.google.com/books?id=zzbv0r6e6gcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false), I see the following on page xxiii:

>>>

Bands in Texas were separated into two generalized categories: string bands and horn bands, the determining factor being the lead instrument in each group. The Musical Brownies, which always featured a fiddle playing lead and dominating the instrumentation, was called a "fiddle band" or a "string band." At the same time, the Brownies learned much of their material from phonograph records or radio programs "horn bands", jazz bands from New Orleans or Chicago that were dominated by the clarinet or cornet (Louis Armstrong, King Oliver) and trombone (Kid Ory, Jack Teagarden). In most cases, Milton Brown simply transferred the melodic lead to the fiddle. It was the dominance of this instrument that kept the Brownies conveniently in the "string band" category, despite the improvisatory nature of their music.

>>>

The introduction also mentions Cab Calloway, Teddy Bunn, Fats Waller, and Sylvester Weaver (who Ginell correctly credits as the source of Leon McAuliffe's "Steel Guitar Rag").

Ginell may not have delved into the influences of African Americans on western swing as deeply as you (and I, for that matter) wish that he had (and those influences clearly are there), but I don't think it's fair to say that there was "literally no mention" of them in the book. My recollection is that much of the book was a sort of oral history based on stories from surviving musical associates and family members who may not, for a variety of reasons, acknowledged or fully conceptualized the extent of those influences.

I am a little wary of Ginell, who managed to write an entire bio of Milton Brown without once mentioning black musicians in any way, as an influence or parallel force to Western Swing; he also once got annoyed at me for suggesting that there was probably a lot of undocumented black music of the Southwesrt that had a powerful influence on white musicians. But most offensive is the Milton Brown book, which has literally no mention of African Americans.

[originjazz]

I've read all of the responses here and just wanted to answer the question about my Milton Brown biography. Much attention was given to questioning Milton's brother Roy Lee and the surviving members of the band, who were still alive in the 1980s when I did this research. I was careful to ask about influences and their unanimous response was that the only direct influence from black musicians came from listening to race records in the Kemble Bros. Furniture Store where they rehearsed. Fort Worth was a segregated town and there was very little mixing of the races. I did report a story Fred Calhoun told about blacks not being allowed to enter the dance halls where the Brownies played, but he visited with some who were sitting outside on a railroad dump, listening to and enjoying the music. The song appendix in the back of the book goes into great detail about the black influences on the Brownies - how they got their theme song from a Famous Hokum Boys 78, how they loved Big Bill's rent-party style songs and the Mississippi Sheiks. The end notes for each chapter list many African American artists who influenced the Brownies' recordings, such as Papa Charlie McCoy, Jimmie Noone, and the Washboard Rhythm Kings. Mr. Lowe needs to read my book again where he will find plenty of references to ALL of the influences on the Brownies, both black and white. I do not try to skew history just to make it "fairer" to one race as opposed to another. I reported what I found. When Mr. Lowe says there was "probably a lot of undocumented black music of the Southwest that had a powerful influence on white musicians," that's a supposition based on conjecture. If there was "undocumented music," how does he know what that music was? I wrote the book around the memories of the Brownies and the few fans that still survived and then analyzed those remembrances. Milton Brown was influenced by a lot of music played on the radio and on records, of which black music was a part. These influences have been clearly spelled out in the book. To say that my book has "literally no mention of African Americans" just shows that Mr. Lowe needs to revisit it. - Cary Ginell

[Chuck Nessa]

Thanks for the response, and it doesn't hurt a bit to use your real name. :-)

[Quasimado]

Nobody read the book?

Q

[jazztrain]

See my post above. I read it several years ago shortly after it came out and learned a lot from it.

[Quasimado]

The thread took a turn ... I meant his Billy Eckstine Biography.

Q

[Gheorghe]

Nobody read the book?

Q

Just have finished it.

Very interesting bio. Until then, most information came from fellow musicians who had great memories about that band.

Though my main interest still is "Mr. B and the Band", I love all his singing, love his voice, his phrasing, his musicianship.

Highly recommended.

[bichos]

not finished the book yet but from what i´ve read i think it´s an easy and good to read book, capturing the whole live

of b. in chronological order from various sources, (newspapers like pittsburgh courier; Magazins (billboard, down beat,...) and with the help of the eckstine Family. two things so far: nothing new about the circumstances of stan hasselgards death. and on page 74 is a mistake as the afrs jubilee Shows from 1945 with eckstine´s band are misslabeled as coming

from the Coca-cola Spotlight bands programs! the book is a good completition to Dieter salemann´s "roots of modern jazz" series vol. 19, solography, discography, band routes, Engagements, Billy eckstine (2010). and now we know that his last "rosebud"-word was: "basie"...

Keep boppin´

marcel

[John Litweiler]

This Savoy reissue reunites all the studio and live recordings, if I'm not mistaken.

F

For some reason this reissue doesn't include the songs from the "Billy Eckstine Sings" LP on Savoy. It has gems like "I've Got to Pass Your House" and "Deep Blue Dream" from later on for the big band. Some arrangements are wow! and it would be great to find out who the arrangers and players specifically were.