is it true that Blue Note/Lion purchased the masters of Transition Reo

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

ok so i was reading about the here comes louis smith date, released on blue note. it was originally recorded for transition. but is it true that lion bought -all- the masters? thats what it was saying. cause blue note certainly never did anything with em. espically the ones was all the blue note artists, 2 byrds, watkins at large. wouldnt it be nice if BN reissued those, as part of the original 1500 series or something like that. i guess they had so much product of their own, it didnt happen- but i wanted to ask up on this--- were the transition masters really in blue notes possession?

Edited October 10, 2013 by chewy

[J.A.W.]

(...) cause blue note certainly never did anything with em. espically the ones was all the blue note artists, 2 byrds, watkins at large. wouldnt it be nice if BN reissued those, as part of the original 1500 series or something like that. (...)

Not true, Donald Byrd's Byrd's Eye View and Byrd Blows on Beacon Hill and Doug Watkins' Watkins at Large were reissued on the Blue Note 2CD-set The Transition Sessions.

Transition was founded by Tom Wilson in 1955 and remained in existence for about two years. Some recordings were acquired by other labels, others by the artists. Some were reissued on Blue Note.

Transition discography: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Labels/transitn.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Transition-Sessions-Donald-Byrd/dp/B00006J3KU/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1381382139&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Transition+Sessions

Edited October 10, 2013 by J.A.W.

[Dan Gould]

He's talking about what Alfred did with the sessions he purchased, not what Michael did forty years after.

And the simple answer is, why put out an 'old' Donald Byrd recording when Alfred could put out a new one?

[J.A.W.]

He's talking about what Alfred did with the sessions he purchased, not what Michael did forty years after.

And the simple answer is, why put out an 'old' Donald Byrd recording when Alfred could put out a new one?

Thanks for the translation

[Head Man]

Thanks for the translation

I put it through the Google translator......language unknown

[JSngry]

The first BN reissues of Transition materials was in the 1970s, as part of the 2-LP Blue Note Reissue Series. The Cecil Taylor & Coltrane/Chambers sets included Transition material.

Not sure what the trek from Transition to United Artists entailed.

[J.A.W.]

Not sure what the trek from Transition to United Artists entailed.

As far as I know United Artists acquired the Transition catalogue in 1958, at least those recordings that hadn't been acquired by other labels or by the artists yet.

Edited October 10, 2013 by J.A.W.

[Dan Gould]

He's talking about what Alfred did with the sessions he purchased, not what Michael did forty years after.

And the simple answer is, why put out an 'old' Donald Byrd recording when Alfred could put out a new one?

Thanks for the translation

My pleasure - always trying to help out a non-native English speaker.

[JSngry]

Not sure what the trek from Transition to United Artists entailed.

As far as I know United Artists acquired the Transition catalogue in 1958, at least those recordings that hadn't been acquired by other labels or by the artists yet.

So the real movement would have been Transition to UA, and then to BN once they were both owned by UA, correct?

In which case, Aric, the answer to your question is "no".

[Stonewall15]

I am a Transition collector. I have acquired CDs of all the Transition jazz LPs released except for TRLP-8 (Pepper Adams/Curtis Fuller) and TRLP-18 (Jay Migliori). Both of these are shown as "unissued" on the Transition Records Discography (http://www.jazzdisco...ls/transitn.htm) referenced above. I have tried unsuccessfully to find out what happened to the sessions. Some of the songs were issued on the Transition Sampler TRLP-30 and on the Paul Chambers Mosaic Select #5 release.

Bird's Eye View (TOCJ-5886), Byrd Blows On Beacon Hill (TOCJ-6832), and Watkins At Large (TOCJ-5885) have been released by the Japanese on separate CDs in addition to The Transition Sessions 2-CD set.

I also suspect that the Walt Gifford/Johnny Windhurst LP titled "New Yorkers" is a Transition session not listed on the Transition discography. This LP was issued by Delmark Records who also released Byrd Jazz (First Flight- TRLP-5), and 2 Sun Ra sessions (TRLP-10 and -28)on LP and CD. Delmark seems to be the final repository of Transition tapes that did not end up with Blue Note.

Any help for my Transition quest would be appreciated.

[J.A.W.]

Not sure what the trek from Transition to United Artists entailed.

As far as I know United Artists acquired the Transition catalogue in 1958, at least those recordings that hadn't been acquired by other labels or by the artists yet.

So the real movement would have been Transition to UA, and then to BN once they were both owned by UA, correct?

In which case, Aric, the answer to your question is "no".

Full UA story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Artists_Records

Edited October 10, 2013 by J.A.W.

[romualdo]

I am a Transition collector. I have acquired CDs of all the Transition jazz LPs released except for TRLP-8 (Pepper Adams/Curtis Fuller) and TRLP-18 (Jay Migliori). Both of these are shown as "unissued" on the Transition Records Discography (http://www.jazzdisco...ls/transitn.htm) referenced above. I have tried unsuccessfully to find out what happened to the sessions. Some of the songs were issued on the Transition Sampler TRLP-30 and on the Paul Chambers Mosaic Select #5 release.

Bird's Eye View (TOCJ-5886), Byrd Blows On Beacon Hill (TOCJ-6832), and Watkins At Large (TOCJ-5885) have been released by the Japanese on separate CDs in addition to The Transition Sessions 2-CD set.

I also suspect that the Walt Gifford/Johnny Windhurst LP titled "New Yorkers" is a Transition session not listed on the Transition discography. This LP was issued by Delmark Records who also released Byrd Jazz (First Flight- TRLP-5), and 2 Sun Ra sessions (TRLP-10 and -28)on LP and CD. Delmark seems to be the final repository of Transition tapes that did not end up with Blue Note.

Any help for my Transition quest would be appreciated.

Dan

the titles (3) from the proposed TRLP 8 (Adams/Fuller) have been released but under Coltrane or Chambers (BN2LP 451-H2: High Step, BN CD 84437: Chambers Music & the Chambers Mosaic Select) - timing for these 3 tracks comes to just over 26mins -> a bit short for a 12" LP

Cuscuna mentions this LP in the Mosaic Select booklet

"Trane's Strain" was the only title released at the time , on the Transition sampler "Jazz In Transition" (LP 30); the other 2 titles ("High Step" & Nixon, Dixon & Yates blues") were first released (mid 70's) on the BN towfer "High Step"

I don't think the LP (#8) was ever released - Were there more titles (unreleased)? - I doubt it (MC would have released them by now)

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

very interesting you all, i really would of loved to see Byrds Eye View reissued earlier, maybe even as a liberty/sunset cutout, like the 1st stereo ed. of lee morgan/Candy (All the Way)

[king ubu]

So how did the Louis Smith end up in BN's 1500 series, then? Different story alltogether from the UA acquisition of Transition?

[jazzbo]

I believe so.

Little bit of detail here:

http://www.bluenote.com/artists/louis-smith

This could mean Lion bought ALL the Transition masters, or that he bought all the Louis Smith master recordings, unclear. From what I read previously I was under the impression he bought all the Transition masters at the time.

Edited October 11, 2013 by jazzbo

[king ubu]

Okay, thanks! This is the AMG biography, I assume? (Mentioning the UA Little disc is a bit of a stretch there!)

So that would suggest the movement was Transition to BN, but BN had little interest (besides the one not previously released Louis Smith LP) and the stuff lay there for all those years, until the brown bags and some others started using it?

[jazzbo]

I don't know anything about a AMG biography.

Not sure if this is at all a fully delineated story. Seems to me that Lion wasn't into reissuing already released sessions at that time, so I'm not sure what he would have done with the masters except release unreleased sessions he thought would be viable; don't think there were many of those available.

Anyway, I really like all the Transitions released and think Tom Wilson became an "okay" rock producer, but wish he could have stuck with jazz.

[king ubu]

Here's the allmusic biography, seems indeed basically the same:

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/louis-smith-mn0000420728/biography

[jazzbo]

Okay thanks, I ignore that site for the most part.

[J.A.W.]

Okay, thanks! This is the AMG biography, I assume? (Mentioning the UA Little disc is a bit of a stretch there!)

So that would suggest the movement was Transition to BN, but BN had little interest (besides the one not previously released Louis Smith LP) and the stuff lay there for all those years, until the brown bags and some others started using it?

According to my sources the Transition recordings that hadn't been acquired yet by others went to United Artists around 1958, when Tom Wilson worked there as a producer. Blue Note purchased two Donald Byrd dates, the Paul Chambers/John Coltrane session, and the Cecil Taylor, Doug Watkins and first Louis Smith dates.

Two of my sources: The New Grove Dictionary of Jazz and Ruppli/Cuscuna's Blue Note discography.

Edited October 12, 2013 by J.A.W.

[clifford_thornton]

So what was the process by which Koester acquired the Ras and Byrd?

[Stonewall15]

Bump.

[Stonewall15]

Still looking for LPs from the Transition label- TRLP-8 (Pepper Adams/Curtis Fuller) and TRLP-18 (Jay Migliori).