Tonny Bennet - SINGS FOR 2 + SINGS STRING OF HAROLD ARLEN

[lobbyman]

Hi folks,

In Jazz vocal category, nobody will deny the print left by Tonny Bennett. Some days ago, i have bought at Jazz Messengers Two complete albums.
I was really pleased by his voice.

I just wanted to share it with you: http://www.jazzmessengers.com/en/62881/tony-bennet/sings-for-2-sings-string-of-harold-arlen

[J.A.W.]

This is a European public-domain release, most likely taken from the previously released Columbia CDs.

[Larry Kart]

Looks like Mr. Lobbyman ("I just wanted to share it with you") might be connected with this store. See his post re: a likely Tommy Flanagan bootleg.

[sonnymax]

Looks like Mr. Lobbyman ("I just wanted to share it with you") might be connected with this store. See his post re: a likely Tommy Flanagan bootleg.

Jordi Jr. is also probably shilling for Fresh Sounds, Blue Sounds, Definitive Records, Lonehill, etc. as well. They're all part of the same business (manufacturing, distributing, retailing) that sell music we already own, i.e. in the pubic domain. I take pleasure in occasionally pulling a "Robin Hood" with these reissues, taking from Jordi and his pals and sharing with the less fortunate. I ain't no hero, but I'm certainly not foolish enough to pay for P.D. material.

[gmonahan]

The Arlen record was reissued on cd years ago by Sony Special products through K-Tel, I think. I remember snagging a copy from an Amazon seller. Of course, it and all of the great singer's other recordings were reissued in the massive Complete box, so getting hold of it to run these new copies isn't tough. It's a good record, however one finds it.

gregmo

[Big Beat Steve]

I ain't no hero, but I'm certainly not foolish enough to pay for P.D. material.

Noble enough, but I take it, then, that you never, never, never ever buy ANY of the "Proper" boxes either and would rate them in the same camp.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Big Beat Steve

[sonnymax]

I ain't no hero, but I'm certainly not foolish enough to pay for P.D. material.

Noble enough, but I take it, then, that you never, never, never ever buy ANY of the "Proper" boxes either and would rate them in the same camp.

Buy them? Nope. Own the music on them? You betcha. I also like to search for the artwork of the original releases, and then catalog them as such in my music library.

[JSngry]

THIS guy?

I think they spelled his last name wrong on the album cover.

[sonnymax]

Hi folks,

In Jazz vocal category, nobody will deny the print left by Tonny Bennett.

Here's a print left by Tony. It's called "Amalfi Coast".

[JSngry]

No, that's Tony Bennett. This thread is about Tonny Bennet (apparently the second "t" is optional(?)..

Please, respect other posters and pay attention. Great tallent deserves as much.

[king ubu]

I ain't no hero, but I'm certainly not foolish enough to pay for P.D. material.

Noble enough, but I take it, then, that you never, never, never ever buy ANY of the "Proper" boxes either and would rate them in the same camp.

No Chrono Classics, no Timeless, no Hep, no JSP, no Mosaic of stuff that's older than 70 years, no Japanese reissues of PD material?

This is getting silly.

I've bought from jazzmessengers.com since they sell lots of labels that are hard to come by for me elsewhere (have to be bought locally for 250% of regular prices or have to imported from the US with ridiculous shipping fees), labels like Steeplechase, Pi, Tzadik, Uptown ... guess there's no way in making sure not a cent goes towards vending (manufacturing? people state it's all the same and jazzmessengers is part of it as if they knew ... it would not surprise to learn as much, no sir, but if you have secret record and proof, why not show?) PD stuff ... but then if you go to Starbucks, you will also silently donate to the NRA and other morons, so ... and remember, Concord is the label of Kenny the G'ster, so boycot them, too now, willya?

[sonnymax]

Please don't put me in this never say never category that BBS has instigated. I applaud honest people who take the time, effort and money to find original sources and, if needed, create a newly remastered version of a classic title. What I personally choose not to buy are reissues that are nothing more than a copy of what is already available, especially "newly remastered" titles that were remastered by someone else, then merely copied for this latest release. The reissue scene for digital downloads is much worse though, with so many "companies" releasing PD material with confusing titles, no discographies, and questionable sources.

Others have the right to spend their money the way they see fit. I'm just thankful that my music library already contains most of the classic titles I need. I wouldn't want to be a newbie at this stage in the game.

[Big Beat Steve]

Others have the right to spend their money the way they see fit. I'm just thankful that my music library already contains most of the classic titles I need. I wouldn't want to be a newbie at this stage in the game.

True. I am much in the same positon, thankfully. Though, being in Europe, I have no qualms whatsoever buying from PD labels (provided they comply with EUROPEAN P.D. rules as they are) to fill specific gaps if and when I find the price is right in relation to the goods offered for that money. If they comply with those rules they are legal here. End of debate.

Which is where I cannot fault Fresh Sound for a lot of their material, particularly because they go in their reissue series where others just either are too cowardly or too greedy to tread.

And please (not you, specifically, Sonnymax, but the P.D. label detractors on a more general level) don't tell me this or that CD had already been reissued on this or that Japanese label as late as 1999, staying on the market for all of an immense seven months. Firstly, do we know Japanese reissuers ALWAYS pay ARTIST royalties the way we would like to see it happen (or don't they take advantage of their shares of P.D. stuff too?), and secondly, drooling about Japanese reissues as if this were the "legit" bandwagon that everybody ought to have hopped on blatantly negates acual ONGOING availabilty and accessibility.

Finally, the only reason why I often get a bit caustic about those who moan about the alleged "Andorran thieves" is because quite a few of the same have, for example, enthused here about those oh so convenient P.D. material box sets from the UK (you know the labels I am talking about, I guess) as if they were a god-send to those who conveniently can fill gaps in the sidelines of their collections that way. (In fact they often are but they DO take advantage of European P.D. rules any time so no use pretending they are any more legit than those Spanish/Andorran labels and in many cases you can trace the material on those box sets right back to previous reissues that still are available too)

This is what I call DOUBLE STANDARDS and that's where I find this whole discussion gets ridiculous. Because in fact you could blame the UK sets just as much as you could blame the Spanish reissuers and there's no point targeting the Spanish labels only if you want to focus on the P.D. reissue label topic at all. So (not meaning you specifically, Sonnymax. but others who might well recognize themselves) if you avoid one, avoid both, or else don't pretend you tower morally that sky-high above those copyright infringements allegedly committed by those labels.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Big Beat Steve

[J.A.W.]

As I've said before, probably ad nauseam, I have problems with labels that blatantly "borrow" transfers and masterings paid for by, for instance, Mosaic and Bear Family. Copyrighting those transfers and masterings as Mosaic and BF do these days doesn't seem to make a difference.

[Big Beat Steve]

I won't disagree with you at all on that point. Which is why I for one have always wondered why a certain label could be endorsed HERE even though, for example, it did a box set on one niche subject of jazz and by sheer coincidence this set included about two thirds (or more) of the material from another box set on the same subject that had previously been released by Fremeaux Associés. Coincidence?

I had gone into the details of this particular release ad nauseam here too and won't repeat them anymore. But again - double standards in this debate are no way of treating the subject IMO.

[J.A.W.]

I won't disagree with you at all on that point. Which is why I for one have always wondered why a certain label could be endorsed HERE even though, for example, it did a box set on one niche subject of jazz and by sheer coincidence this set included about two thirds (or more) of the material from another box set on the same subject that had previously been released by Fremeaux Associés. Coincidence?

I had gone into the details of this particular release ad nauseam here too and won't repeat them anymore. But again - double standards in this debate are no way of treating the subject IMO.

I probably missed that, as I have no idea which "borrowing" label and which boxed sets you are talking about.

Edited September 24, 2013 by J.A.W.

[gmonahan]

As I've said before, probably ad nauseam, I have problems with labels that blatantly "borrow" transfers and masterings paid for by, for instance, Mosaic and Bear Family. Copyrighting those transfers and masterings as Mosaic and BF do these days doesn't seem to make a difference.

I agree with this, but (and how many times have we had this debate?!) if the material is available nowhere else, well, I get it. Example: The John Graas Jazz Studio and Jazz Lab recordings originally issued on (I think) Decca. They're only available from Lonehill. Mosaic has never touched them, and neither, to my knowledge, have any of the "legitimate" reissue labels. So I got the Lonehills. I don't feel great about supporting the label, but I want to hear that music by a (pretty well forgotten) fine jazz artist.

gregmo

[JSngry]

[medjuck]

As I've said before, probably ad nauseam, I have problems with labels that blatantly "borrow" transfers and masterings paid for by, for instance, Mosaic and Bear Family. Copyrighting those transfers and masterings as Mosaic and BF do these days doesn't seem to make a difference.

I agree with this, but (and how many times have we had this debate?!) if the material is available nowhere else, well, I get it. Example: The John Graas Jazz Studio and Jazz Lab recordings originally issued on (I think) Decca. They're only available from Lonehill. Mosaic has never touched them, and neither, to my knowledge, have any of the "legitimate" reissue labels. So I got the Lonehills. I don't feel great about supporting the label, but I want to hear that music by a (pretty well forgotten) fine jazz artist.

gregmo

Yeh, I spent years looking for that one. Once bought it as 3 45 EPs.

[Big Beat Steve]

As I've said before, probably ad nauseam, I have problems with labels that blatantly "borrow" transfers and masterings paid for by, for instance, Mosaic and Bear Family. Copyrighting those transfers and masterings as Mosaic and BF do these days doesn't seem to make a difference.

I agree with this, but (and how many times have we had this debate?!) if the material is available nowhere else, well, I get it. Example: The John Graas Jazz Studio and Jazz Lab recordings originally issued on (I think) Decca. They're only available from Lonehill. Mosaic has never touched them, and neither, to my knowledge, have any of the "legitimate" reissue labels. So I got the Lonehills. I don't feel great about supporting the label, but I want to hear that music by a (pretty well forgotten) fine jazz artist.

gregmo

Yeh, I spent years looking for that one. Once bought it as 3 45 EPs.

Just for the record, they HAVE been out as reissues on vinyl - on German MCA in the mid-70s (in a series called "Jazz Lab", incidentally). But of course this series is not likely to have been widely accessible outside Germany.

And this is one of the cases I mentioned above - Fresh Sound at least covers territories where others either fear or don't care to tread. And I'd guess these are reissues that are not likely to make you a rich man by ANY standards so if you wanted to use terms such as "ripoffs" you'd have to look elsewhere, I'd say.

[J.A.W.]

As I've said before, probably ad nauseam, I have problems with labels that blatantly "borrow" transfers and masterings paid for by, for instance, Mosaic and Bear Family. Copyrighting those transfers and masterings as Mosaic and BF do these days doesn't seem to make a difference.

I agree with this, but (and how many times have we had this debate?!) if the material is available nowhere else, well, I get it. Example: The John Graas Jazz Studio and Jazz Lab recordings originally issued on (I think) Decca. They're only available from Lonehill. Mosaic has never touched them, and neither, to my knowledge, have any of the "legitimate" reissue labels. So I got the Lonehills. I don't feel great about supporting the label, but I want to hear that music by a (pretty well forgotten) fine jazz artist.

gregmo

I wasn't talking about material that is not available anywhere else, my point was and is that some labels "borrow" transfers and masterings of material that is available on labels that paid for those transfers and masterings.

By the way, John Graas' Jazz Studio 2 and Jazz Studio 3 albums were released on CD by Universal Japan in 2004. There was a thread about the Japanese Jazz Studio reissues some years ago.

Edited September 25, 2013 by J.A.W.

[king ubu]

By the way, John Graas' Jazz Studio 2 and Jazz Studio 3 albums were released on CD by Universal Japan in 2004. There was a thread about the Japanese Jazz Studio reissues some years ago.

... and available for a mind-boggling seventeen days

[J.A.W.]

By the way, John Graas' Jazz Studio 2 and Jazz Studio 3 albums were released on CD by Universal Japan in 2004. There was a thread about the Japanese Jazz Studio reissues some years ago.

... and available for a mind-boggling seventeen days

I don't think so, I got them from Japan several months after they were released.

Edited September 25, 2013 by J.A.W.

[Big Beat Steve]

I don't think so, I got them from Japan several months after they were released.

:g

Several months? And that probably was just before they went OOP?

Of course King Ubu was all tongue-in-cheek but isn't the basic point just this: Japanese CDs aren't exactly a prime example of items that REMAIN available WORLDWIDE.

Pops up one day, grab it while ya can (if you become aware that it has been relased at all), poof it goes OOP and vanishes off the face of the earth.

So many Japanese reissues really are highly IRRELEVANT when it comes to discussing items that remain IN PRINT for at least a reasonably moderate span of time and are at least halfway EASILY available from wherever you are.

You know, buying records for one's collection is enough detective work already when it comes to originals and decades-long OOP items. If you need to go sleuthing ALL the time even for new reissues then this can get to be a bit more than what one can reasonably handle, so lots of items actually never existed in reissue form for many people.

[J.A.W.]

I don't think so, I got them from Japan several months after they were released.

Of course King Ubu was all tongue-in-cheek

Well, I didn't get that ; as I said before I'm pretty naive when it comes to things like that.

As for the rest of your post, I don't have any problems getting Japanese releases, even older ones; CDJapan and Amazon Japan are great sources. But perhaps I'm not your typical collector...

Edited September 25, 2013 by J.A.W.