Post Coltrane Recommendations Please!

[felser]

Look for a 2-LP set from the early 70's on Impulse! called "The Best of Pharoah Sanders". It contains the complete "Karma" album (all 33 minutes of "The Creator Has a Master Plan" and the other short cut), plus some other essentials.

[Deepak]

I'm new to the forum, and there seem to be so many knowledgeable people here that I'm hoping for some recommendations. I got into jazz when I was introduced to Charlie Parker; I fixated on his music for several years. From Parker I progressed to Coltrane; I've fixated on his music for even longer. I consider "A Love Supreme" to be my favorite recording of all time, but I don't like Trane's subsequent free jazz stuff, or any other jazz that completely lacks cohesion. I'm also quite fond of "Live at Birdland" and "Impressions". I'm a fan of albums like McCoy Tyner's "The Real McCoy", Elvin Jones' "Puttin It All Together", and Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch". Now that I've bored you to death, I guess in simpler terms I'm looking for some post-bop, pre-free jazz, non-Coltrane recomendations.

I would recommend checking out Ravi Coltrane, though I'm not sure if many (or any) of his albums are on vinyl.

In a similar "spirituality" vein as A Love Supreme I would recommend Pharaoh Sanders' Impulse! albums... Karma may be a good place to start, though it is leaning on the free side. Another fantastic post bop album is Sonny Rollins East Broadway Run Down.

I've actually been looking into Karma, I'm holding out for the vinyl right now but first pressings rarely pop up on eBay in decent shape and there doesn't seem to be a decent reissue. I just might have to go with the CD.

I didn't think Pharoah's albums were that popular on vinyl. I bought all my original ABC pink rim first pressings before this recent vinyl boom. I don't think I paid more than $30 an album, for all in what look and sound like unplayed condition. I watched a near mint first pressing of A Love Supreme go for $245 from a reputable dealer yesterday... to quote Paulie from The Sopranos, "oof marone!"

Sign up for a free Spotify account. There are hundreds of post bop and avant-garde jazz albums on there that you can stream and determine what you like and don't like.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Deepak

[sidewinder]

Can't go wrong with the new Woody Shaw Complete Muse Mosaic set

Perhaps also John Surman's Derams? (available on Vocalion CD)

Edited September 18, 2013 by sidewinder

[king ubu]

McCoy Tyner, of course ... the late Blue Notes and the early Milestones!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm new to the forum, and there seem to be so many knowledgeable people here that I'm hoping for some recommendations. I got into jazz when I was introduced to Charlie Parker; I fixated on his music for several years. From Parker I progressed to Coltrane; I've fixated on his music for even longer. I consider "A Love Supreme" to be my favorite recording of all time, but I don't like Trane's subsequent free jazz stuff, or any other jazz that completely lacks cohesion. I'm also quite fond of "Live at Birdland" and "Impressions". I'm a fan of albums like McCoy Tyner's "The Real McCoy", Elvin Jones' "Puttin It All Together", and Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch". Now that I've bored you to death, I guess in simpler terms I'm looking for some post-bop, pre-free jazz, non-Coltrane recomendations.

I would recommend checking out Ravi Coltrane, though I'm not sure if many (or any) of his albums are on vinyl.

In a similar "spirituality" vein as A Love Supreme I would recommend Pharaoh Sanders' Impulse! albums... Karma may be a good place to start, though it is leaning on the free side. Another fantastic post bop album is Sonny Rollins East Broadway Run Down.

I've actually been looking into Karma, I'm holding out for the vinyl right now but first pressings rarely pop up on eBay in decent shape and there doesn't seem to be a decent reissue. I just might have to go with the CD.

I didn't think Pharoah's albums were that popular on vinyl. I bought all my original ABC pink rim first pressings before this recent vinyl boom. I don't think I paid more than $30 an album, for all in what look and sound like unplayed condition.

Pharoah was pretty popular, back in the day. 'Karma', 'Jewels of thought', 'Thembi' (all Impulse) and 'Love will find a way' (Arista) were all hit albums (not huge but on pop & R&B LP charts). Oh, and German pressings from the late 60s/early 70s are pretty nice. My copies of 'Karma' and 'Jewels of thought' have been pretty heavily played since I got 'em over 40 years ago and still sound great. Bet those are cheaper.

Surprised no one's mentioned the albums made by Booby Hutcherson & Harold Land, since everyone here seems to think they're great.

MG

[1stpress]

Going on the multiple recommendations, I just talked a guy on eBay into lowering the price of his NM Billy Harper "Black Saint" first pressing from $30.00 to $20.00 Buy it Now. I can't wait to hear it in its entirety.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITALY-Original-1975-1st-BLACK-SAINT-LP-BSR-0001-BILLY-HARPER-/360719866280?nma=true&si=q%252F0iBgC6FukD3A0yWur2LxGcif4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_707wt_1154

[jazzbo]

I highly recommend this release:

[1stpress]

I'll look into that as well, thanks. I got my Prince Lasha & Sonny Simmons Cry! this week, it's fantastic. I can't wait for more of these recommendations to start showing up in my mailbox.

[Niko]

second the recommendation of the Nate Morgan Album, it's a bit like a smaller-scale, 80s, A Love Supreme

[1stpress]

second the recommendation of the Nate Morgan Album, it's a bit like a smaller-scale, 80s, A Love Supreme

Just picked up a new copy of the Nate Morgan on Dust Grooves for $13.29 shipped. It's the only place that I could find it, it seems to be quite rare on CD or any other format.

[Niko]

generally, the best place for finding Nimbus West releases is at the source:

http://www.nimbuswest.com/files/html/CDs.htm

if the Morgan album works for you, there's more there...

[Chuck Nessa]

I must say your avatar keeps me from taking you seriously. Sorry.

[Larry Kart]

I'll look into that as well, thanks. I got my Prince Lasha & Sonny Simmons Cry! this week, it's fantastic. I can't wait for more of these recommendations to start showing up in my mailbox.

Glad you enjoy it.

[1stpress]

I must say your avatar keeps me from taking you seriously. Sorry.

OH my LORD! Would this one work better for you?

[JSngry]

To be honest, this one kind of had me wondering myself:

I don't like Trane's subsequent free jazz stuff, or any other jazz that completely lacks cohesion.

People say stuff like that and I begin to wonder how much they hear or how much they're willing to hear. There are no right or wrong answers, but Interstellar Space is pretty damn cohesive, actually, as is any amount of so-called "free jazz". It's a cohesion not based on cyclical and/or song structures, but...again, thre are no right or wrong answers, but not knowing where your own line is, I would love to recommend you, say, anything by Air, but...not sure if that's over your line or not.

Serious question - does this strike you as delightfully semi-abstracted funk or lacking in cohesion, for whatever reason?

If it's the former, then there's a whole 'nother world out there. And if the latter, there's still much to discover. But the "lack of cohesion" thing makes me hesitant to offer a lot of things.

[1stpress]

I find that track to be quite intriguing. The clip below exemplifies the type of jazz I'd like to avoid (at least for now).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-x4J7LGfMI

[JSngry]

Well, that was one thing at one time..part of a whole "big bang" that has continued to spread and evolve into a lot of different areas...you may or may not at some point find yourself coming to it by "working backwards", so to speak. Either way, do not sleep on Interstellar Space. That's music is highly organized, highly virtuosic, and just all-around greatness. It's the one piece of late Trane that I'll "insist" that anybody with "ears to hear" stick with until they "get it". There's that much there.

You might enjoy the Anthony Braxton/Max Roach duet album on Black Saint then. Very varied presentation, two masters at work. I could find just one YouTube clip, and it's a "burner", but see what you think.

No "form" per se, not in the song-form sense, but the music has its own internal logic & an intrinsically sound power, I think. In a lot of ways, that's what that whole "big bang" thing was, just clearing the air so new ways could have some room. The ideas that really have weight have continued to grow and develop. The ones that didn't, not so much.

[clifford_thornton]

I must say your avatar keeps me from taking you seriously. Sorry.

OH my LORD! Would this one work better for you?

Ha - wasn't Aric using Larry and Balki as his avatar? I can't remember...

The Cry is one of my all time favorite jazz records. Glad you dig it and welcome to the board.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Surprised no one's mentioned Von Freeman yet. So I'll mention Von Freeman.

Von Freeman

Von Freeman

Von Freeman

MG

[Joe]

You might also find something to like in Gary Bartz and Sonny Fortune's 70s work... almost all of Bartz's ealry 70s Milestone dates are available on CD in one form or another (LIBRA, ANOTHER EARTH, I'VE KNOWN RIVERS, etc.), and vinyl copies of Fortune's LONG BEFORE OUR MOTHERS CRIED are relatively plentiful. You will, of course, have to make peace with electric instrumentation and African / Afro-Brazilian percussion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQCQRczN6sI

[Alexander Hawkins]

Repetitive Structure? Check!

Singable Melody? Check!

Chord Changes Clearly Delineated? Check

Steady Time Kept? Check!

Soloists Play The Form? Check!

Blues Flavor In Timbres And Rhythmic Impetus? Check!

Latin Tinge? Check!

Post-Coltrane? Check!

Pre-Free? OOOOOOOOPS!

I love this live footage of Try Some Ammonia too!

[danasgoodstuff]

Well, that was one thing at one time..part of a whole "big bang" that has continued to spread and evolve into a lot of different areas...you may or may not at some point find yourself coming to it by "working backwards", so to speak. Either way, do not sleep on Interstellar Space. That's music is highly organized, highly virtuosic, and just all-around greatness. It's the one piece of late Trane that I'll "insist" that anybody with "ears to hear" stick with until they "get it". There's that much there.

You might enjoy the Anthony Braxton/Max Roach duet album on Black Saint then. Very varied presentation, two masters at work. I could find just one YouTube clip, and it's a "burner", but see what you think.

No "form" per se, not in the song-form sense, but the music has its own internal logic & an intrinsically sound power, I think. In a lot of ways, that's what that whole "big bang" thing was, just clearing the air so new ways could have some room. The ideas that really have weight have continued to grow and develop. The ones that didn't, not so much.

Interstellar Space was certainly the one that convinced me to keep working on post-Love Supreme 'Trane, it was like 'oh, this is where he was going, OK then.'

[Steve Reynolds]

Go see a band or musicians that you THINK are too far out or difficult play LIVE

Pick a band with a great drummer

[bogdan101]

You'll like Steve Lacy's "Live at Sweet Basil".

[king ubu]

Surprised no one's mentioned Von Freeman yet. So I'll mention Von Freeman.

Von Freeman

Von Freeman

Von Freeman

MG

He's pre-Coltrane

But then, seriously, what jazz from around 1965 onwards isn't "post Coltrane" in one way or another, anway? Okay, Louis Armstrong's All Stars and Ellington's and Basie's bands were still around, but ...