clifford_thornton Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Some of you might enjoy this interview I did with Matthew Shipp. There's also an in-print, shorter version running in this month's New York City Jazz Record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Thanks for posting Clifford, will make good breakfast reading this morning. Hoping to see MS with Ivo Perelman next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) Thanks for posting this. Shipp being Shipp. Shots @ everyone. Even the first close to semi-official thing on what happened with Susie Ibarra...as in, the best official drummer that group ever had. Should be interesting to read Chuck's response to Roscoe Mitchell being compared to Bill Evans and not the same "energy" as the East Coast. Edited September 1, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 good old Matt; I once told him he reminded me of a successful version of me, which he found amusing; only, he seems to get in a lot less trouble than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) Excellent piece, Nikantu! Glad to see Matthew admit folks' problems with David S. Ware; though "Flight of I" was bracing at the time, the rest of the Ware's discography comprises maybe one hot cd-length compilation... two is stretching it because Ware is such a blowhard drag. Telling also he could be such a douche (my word) to his drummers; maybe he should have taken a good bit of that attitude/"energy" and put it towards developing as a COMPOSER? Nahhhhhhh, better to fulminate, hold back your sidemen, hassle your drummers and look "spiritual." Dashiki-run-run da-do run run! And while David S. Ware certainly wasn't the worst ersatz "star" of the "free" shuck, he's certainly among the most dreary and the one with most irritating fans, like ooooh, if you don't bow at Ware's altar you're refuting 500 years of Afro-diasporic huzzahs, handjobs and hambone. And please, spare us all the banal Sonny Rollins references... I'd rather listen a box of nothing but Cliifton Anderson trombone solos than pretend David S. Ware "speaks" to me in a way that elicits a reaction more benign than STFU already! Roscoe Mitchell = genius musician, composer, conceptualist; also a damn snappy dresser. "East Coast energy music" = mostly bullshit, not to imply the German/Dutch/English (hah hah) versions are significantly better. "Live At The East" >>>>>> the rest of "East Coast energy music" combined Nikantu endorses none of these opinions! (Except maybe about Roscoe.) For one of the Matthew's greatest collaborators, Allen Lowe-- For syncopationists! Edited September 1, 2013 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 You don't usually think of William Parker shopping at Radio Shack, but...why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Very interesting read. The part where Ware thought that the 'last concert' was just a gimmick only to be told that it was indeed the last concert for that group was funny on a few levels. Has there ever been a 'This is Spinal Tap' style mockumentary made about This Music? Seems ripe for it. Also interesting what they had to say about physical media versus downloads. Helped to crystalise my own thoughts on it a bit... intellectually i want to say that it's all about the music but i've never been able to explain that weird disconnect i've felt when downloading an album from bandcamp etc. If it's an album i really dig i always end up needed to get it on CD to feel complete. I always enjoy reading Shipp interviews; he talks a good game and i always get excited to revisit the handful of his albums that i have in my collection... I do enjoy Shipp's music but i feel like the penny is yet to fully drop for me. Like, don't love yet, but i think it's going to happen at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted September 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 And while David S. Ware certainly wasn't the worst ersatz "star" of the "free" shuck, he's certainly among the most dreary and the one with most irritating fans, like ooooh, if you don't bow at Ware's altar you're refuting 500 years of Afro-diasporic huzzahs, handjobs and hambone. Yes. I like Ware, especially the work towards the end of his life - but don't love his music overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) Yes. I like Ware, especially the work towards the end of his life - but don't love his music overall. When he became the most boring for me, but then he jumped the shark from me after the embarrassing clusterfuck that resulted in Susie Ibarra leaving. Edited September 1, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Very good read, Clifford! I really ought to check out somre more recent Shipp ... I've got much of his Hat output but that's just about it. Some catching up to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 He sure does like to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Matt is incredibly versatile - here's a piece from our so-far unreleased project Field Recording - me on alto, Matt on piano, Ray Suhyy guitar, Rob Wallace drums; Variations on Jim Crow - https://soundcloud.com/allenlowe-1/variations-on-jim-crow Edited September 2, 2013 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yes. I like Ware, especially the work towards the end of his life - but don't love his music overall. When he became the most boring for me, but then he jumped the shark from me after the embarrassing clusterfuck that resulted in Susie Ibarra leaving. Which was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 He sure does like to talk. Yep. It's a reason this interview is an interesting read. thks. That leaves him open for interpretation. I personally do not feel that this interview reflects negatively on anybody he talks about. (other than the Jarret thingy}. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Which was? This is what I have been able to piece together based on what people old enough @ the time....as well as one of my archaeological digs of the archives on JC. It started with the NYT doing a piece on her. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.music.bluenote/aYSuwdr-iCg/b7rjcGwJm0wJ Steven Joerg who runs AUM Fidelity was also Ware's manager. He wrote a letter to the NYT basically saying she didn't pay her dues and was getting all the attention because of William Parker initially and being in Ware's band.http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/13/arts/l-susie-ibarra-what-struggle-116173.html Then Assif Tsahar who was her husband @ the time started posting an open letter to Joerg all over the place. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.bluenote/LafWaYk97_o As you can imagine things went to hell from there. With both Joerg and Tsahar going off on each other. Musicians, reporters, fans got involved. It appears Parker and/or his wife somehow got involved in the feud. She left that band as well as Parker's groups she was in. Not a single person from that group has performed with her again that I know of, or anyone that who recorded for Aum Fidelity. She also hasn't been back to Vision Fest (that I know of) and this all happened back over a couple weeks in May - June 1999. She and Tsahar would get divorced not long after in the same year this all happened. At no time did Ware (or Shipp for that matter) come to her defense and no one thinks Joerg would have did what he did without Ware's okaying it. Of course, a lot of people and musicians rallied around her. Ware and the rest came out looking really bad. Zorn and his circle of musicians really took her under their wing so to speak. She is really the only one that came out looking good in the whole thing. Even Marian McPartland got involved. http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/20/arts/l-susie-ibarra-unsung-drummers-207446.html Like I said an embarrassing clusterfuck. Edited September 2, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Thanks! Never cared much about Ware, so was totally unaware of these on-goings ... some nasty stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 My opinion is that both Ware and Parker were envious that the NYT was doing a piece on her and not them....which lead to Joerg's hey, Ware and Parker have been doing this almost as long as she lived response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Which was? Like I said an embarrassing clusterfuck. Thanks for clearing that up. I remember the Times article, didn't know about the aftermath. Yek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 My opinion is that both Ware and Parker were envious that the NYT was doing a piece on her and not them....which lead to Joerg's hey, Ware and Parker have been doing this almost as long as she lived response. Yeah, well, if Joerg's a good promoter/supporter (and not just a smart business person), he should try and place such stories, maybe, rather than hitting the face of the youngster (and damn, I said it in 2001 and I still say it, she's a darn fine drummer) that does get a story. I found Tsahar's reply mostly very moderately and sensibly worded, I was kinda expecting a shitstorm but not there (and I don't like Tsahar's music much better than Ware's so that's nothing to do with my perception here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Thanks for posting this, Clifford Not in agreement with very much for whatever reason, he rubs me very much the wrong way even though I can't pin point why. I'm always reminded that I was aware that in the late 90's he was known to check out Tower Records big store in NYC every day to see what was sold of his. Self-importance to the extreme That is what irritates the fuck out of me about Matt Shipp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm always reminded that I was aware that in the late 90's he was known to check out Tower Records big store in NYC every day to see what was sold of his. Never heard this before, but so Shipp-like! When he, or Parker (who is more boring with each recording without DA Drake!) once again ever are on the same stage, or record anything with Susie Ibarra is when I take either seriously again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 I heard William Parker with 3 different drummers this last weekend, Avereeayl Ra, Isaiah Spencer and Alvin Fielder and he never sounded boring to me. Unfortunately I had to miss his set with Drake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Matt really is not the least bit self-important. He's self aware, smart, adaptable, open, etc. I've rarely worked with a musician of his stature who was so easy to deal with on a professional level (though Hemphill was also a breeze in the studio). And you need to check out a lot more of what he's done, Blue Train. I've seen him do very effective references to (not imitiations of) Ran Blake, Jaki Byard, Lennie Tristano, Bud Powell - he really knows his shit and he is very secure, that's true - but never arrogant in the least. Also, listen to the clip I posted to get an idea of his sense of form. Edited September 2, 2013 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Train Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) @ e@ w, Blue Train. I've seen him do very effective references to (not imitiations of) Ran Blake, Jaki Byard, Lennie Tristano, Bud Powell - he really knows his shit and he is very secure, that's true - but never arrogant in the least. Also, listen to the clip I posted to get an idea of his sense of form. 1. Just why do you assume?...and you know what they say about assuming? 2. He's not in anyway close to being secure. His every one of these interviews prove that....if he really was secure in anyway....forget about just being anywhere near Susie ibarra were people might actuall take a picture of it....just record a single recording with her from the coward. Ware has been dead for how long and he's still not secure in anyway @ all. As in, if I wasn't clear enough before....Shipp being Shipp. Edited September 3, 2013 by Blue Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) uhh, you misquoted me a lot there, Blue Boy. I said he was secure; I never assumed anything, you just didn't read very closely. YOU said: "When he, or Parker (who is more boring with each recording without DA Drake!) once again ever are on the same stage, or record anything with Susie Ibarra is when I take either seriously again." So I pointed out MY clip, in which you can take MATT seriously, Obviously you haven't listened. This gets weirder and weirder. I feel like I am visiting the planet Non-Sequitor. Edited September 3, 2013 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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