Albert Murray has checked out

[Chuck Nessa]

So long Albert.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/books/albert-murray-essayist-who-challenged-the-conventional-dies-at-97.html?hp&_r=0&gwh=AB4EF7A6EA8B5D4F8E9BC763D3D55EC2

Edited August 20, 2013 by Chuck Nessa

[Chuck Nessa]

I am stunned there are no responses to this message. Could it be because I did not say RIP?

[jeffcrom]

My responses to Murray's writing are less than totally positive, so I thought I would just keep my mouth shut. But I'll say it - RIP, Mr. Murray.

[Chuck Nessa]

I had a nasty exchange with him on a panel in Dayton, Ohio. It was a festival of some sort and later that day I met David Murray on a staircase and he said "I hear you had a tussle with my man Albert!" then he smiled and slapped me on the back.

He did lots of work admired by others and I thought his passing was important.

[PHILLYQ]

I am stunned there are no responses to this message. Could it be because I did not say RIP?

I had nothing good to say, so...

[marcello]

You what they say about speaking ill of the dead...so I passed.

I'm not a fan of "agenda" viewpoints when it comes to this music.

[JSngry]

I got where he came from, just not where he went to.

[marcello]

Very well put, Jim.

[king ubu]

Read the obit with much interest - quite a life!

But other than having read - with much amusement - Basie's autobiography, I don't really know much about him.

[Mark Stryker]

Don't have time to lay out a complete defense -- and, to be clear, I would not defend everything in the oeuvre in every detail (though I would defend a lot) -- but Murray was an incredibly important writer and thinker whose contributions go way beyond those aspects of "Stomping the Blues" with which some here may disagree; I do wonder how many negative views are shaped more by folks' distaste for his high-profile progeny in the jazz world (Marsalis/Crouch) than by his own nuanced work. And speaking of progeny, his influence on the next generation of black public intellectuals (Henry Louis Gates, Cornel West, Stephen Carter, Crouch and others) was enormous. I have no issue with principled arguments against his work, but if you think you know what Murray is about and you haven't read the profoundly integrationist "The Omni-Americans" and "South to a Very Old Place" (and also read "Stompin' the Blues" and "The Hero and the Blues" rather than absorbed them second or third hand), then you don't know the breadth and totality of the work and all he has to say about American culture and experience. Again, I'm not arguing for Murray's infallibility, and I know there are those who can and do quarrel intelligently with his ideas. But the tone of some of the blanket dismissals whenever Murray's name comes up here rankles me. It's not worthy of the achievements. FWIW, here's a short appreciation by Skip Gates http://www.theroot.com/views/albert-murray-influential-essayist-dies and here is a commanding assessment of "South to a Very Old Place" by James Marcus. http://www.cjr.org/second_read/home_truths.php?page=all

Edited August 21, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[jlhoots]

Agree with Mark.

R.I.P.

[John L]

RIP. I also agree that many of Albert Murray's writings were insightful and important.

[John Litweiler]

A delightful and exasperating man. Albert Murray taught me in a one week seminar in 1974 and I quite appreciated his insights re the influence of African-Americans on American culture, while I thought some of his ideas re jazz were preposterous. For example, 1) blues is not a separate tradition that developed alongside jazz, but strictly a precursor of jazz. The proof this that blues is a folk art and folk art does not change, whereas jazz is a fine art and fine art is ever-changing. 2) (as if to contradict 1)) "avant-garde" is a military term for the front line of soldiers who are sent out to attack the enemy and get slaughtered in the process. He had other derogatory things to say about those doomed soldiers and their musical counterparts. He was a U.S. air-force major. I believe Murray put these in a later book or 2.

"The Omni-Americans" first, then "South to a Very Old Place" are his most important works, I think. The first of his novels, "Train Whistle Guitar," is beautiful. His "Stomping the Blues" is alternately right-on and ridiculous. Count Basie's autobiography as told to Murray is another beautiful book, but it may be as much Murray's book as Basie's. For example, Basie's frequent statements that Ellington was his superior look like Murray vamping on his own favorite jazz artist rather than something Basie actually said again and again.

Here's a review I wrote of two Murray books: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-03-17/entertainment/9603170005_1_train-whistle-guitar-scooter-seven-league-boots. Re Murray's great love of Hemingway, he never seems to have noticed that Hemingway was a racist and a suicide.

Murray loved Ellington and the Ellington band and told stories I won't repeat because children are present. He refused to come back to the Smithsonian to teach the next week because (so I was told) David Baker would be on the faculty and he considered Baker a racist.

[Neal Pomea]

Folk art does change. Unless he wants to call Cajun music jazz.

But his theory about black influence on American music works quite well for Cajun music. Much of the basis of Cajun music came from the teaming of white Irish Creole fiddler Denus McGee and black Creole accordionist Amédé Ardoin. Together they recorded what became the standards of Cajun music, as well as black Creole music which evolved into Zydeco. The white Cajun musicians wouldn't have any songs to play were it not for the black Creole Ardoin!

Edited August 22, 2013 by Neal Pomea

[Larry Kart]

John -- In what way, for what reasons, did Murray consider David Baker to be a racist? Hard to see how a man who headed the U. of Indiana jazz program for many years, guiding students of many races in what would have to be equitable manner or he wouldn't have been allowed to continue in the post, could be called a racist.

[Mark Stryker]

John -- thanks for those thoughts.

Like Larry, I wonder about the source and context for that view of David Baker, whom I've known since I was kid growing up in Bloomington and gotten to know pretty well as an adult. I cannot think of any possible way, form or context in which it might be possible to consider David racist in any way.

Larry -- it's Indiana University not University of Indiana -- don't mean to be a dick on this point, but having grown up there, this always rankles my eye and ear when I see it incorrect.

All -- nice set of drummers in this picture with Murray: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/21/albert_murray_died_writer_s_obituaries_missed_a_few_things.html

Edited August 22, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[AllenLowe]

I really think Murray was a light weight; I tried to read through a few of his books and could only make it part way, and yes, his blues stuff is dumb.

Also, I do believe in the book of letters between himself and Ellison he puts down Basie's '50s band. In one other of his he starts railing about Genet and the avant garde and sounds like some dumbass middle American Republican.

and his AVANT GARDE definition thing was his dumbest - those who coined the term (they were French) were AWARE of the military meaning; that's why they used the term, as a way of saying that avant garde artists are the ones willing to go out front and take the risk of (critical) slaughter. Murray, in his ignorance, acts as though the were guilty of inadvertent irony. They were not.

Edited August 22, 2013 by AllenLowe

[Larry Kart]

John -- thanks for those thoughts.

Like Larry, I wonder about the source and context for that view of David Baker, whom I've known since I was kid growing up in Bloomington and gotten to know pretty well as an adult. I cannot think of any possible way, form or context in which it might be possible to consider David racist in any way.

Larry -- it's Indiana University not University of Indiana -- don't mean to dick on this point, but having grown up there, this always rankles my eye and ear when I see it incorrect.

All -- nice set of drummers in this picture with Murray: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/21/albert_murray_died_writer_s_obituaries_missed_a_few_things.html

That's funny -- I vaguely recall catching someone else making the same "University of Indiana" mistake I did.

[ejp626]

As long as you don't forget it's THE Ohio State University.

Apparently it's a hanging offense in Columbus...

[Chuck Nessa]

I really think Murray was a light weight; I tried to read through a few of his books and could only make it part way, and yes, his blues stuff is dumb.

Also, I do believe in the book of letters between himself and Ellison he puts down Basie's '50s band. In one other of his he starts railing about Genet and the avant garde and sounds like some dumbass middle American Republican.

and his AVANT GARDE definition thing was his dumbest - those who coined the term (they were French) were AWARE of the military meaning; that's why they used the term, as a way of saying that avant garde artists are the ones willing to go out front and take the risk of (critical) slaughter. Murray, in his ignorance, acts as though the were guilty of inadvertent irony. They were not.

I agree with this post and should mention he made a different version of his "Avant Garde" story during the panel I attended. He framed it as "with my professional military experience, I recall the "avant garde" were the folks we sent to be sacrificed in the battle for the winning troops to follow". At this point I "exploded" and went on about real folks dead for their art. At the end of my "rant" he looked down the table at me and said "You talkin' to me? I'm sorry, I believe my hearing aid is malfunctioning".

I can only think of him as a dickhead.

[Brad]

Obviously he was controversial; just read the posts here. However, that shouldn't prevent us from saying Rest in Peace for a productive life.

[John Litweiler]

John -- In what way, for what reasons, did Murray consider David Baker to be a racist? Hard to see how a man who headed the U. of Indiana jazz program for many years, guiding students of many races in what would have to be equitable manner or he wouldn't have been allowed to continue in the post, could be called a racist.

I too have wondered about that.

My memory is shot - it may have been just a rumor.

[robertoart]

I am stunned there are no responses to this message. Could it be because I did not say RIP?

It's too political.