colinmce Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 I agree, but surely see room for all three. Quote
paul secor Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Charlie Haden (mentioned in a post above) was named in 2012. How about Archie Shepp? And Wadada Leo Smith? Quote
Steve Reynolds Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Charlie Haden (mentioned in a post above) was named in 2012. How about Archie Shepp? And Wadada Leo Smith? agreed - huge figures in this music Quote
Larry Kart Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Despite my (and many others) many issues with William Parker (which fwiw are documented for a couple of more days on the other board), he deserves to be honored. His legacy will be immense and his impact on the music has been much more than most realize. and as wonderful drummers that both Billy Hart and Joe Chambers are, they cannot be honered before the *great* Andrew Cyrille As much as I respect Mr. Larry Kart, they are simply not in the same category of musician or impact on the jazz/music/improvisational scene in general as Andrew Cyrille. some of us might consider him the greatest living American drummer. I prefer Chambers as a drummer and composer to Cyrille, but Cyrille is certainly worthy, and Chambers hasn't been on the scene over the years as much as one would wish -- certainly not as much as Cyrille, I believe. Quote
Larry Kart Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Just to show how differently people can think about these things, on another online discussion board, a member posted this list of musicians who should be honored: Sir Charles Thompson Dick Hyman Bob Dorough Dave Frishberg Mark Murphy Jessica Williams I like the idea of Sir Charles. Hyman, maybe, but so much of his work has been emulative -- not that he doesn't have his own thing, but those were the gigs he found himself in or took. Dorough and Frishberg aren't much to my taste -- the former clever hip on a good day but not enough vocal ability, the latter too often too cute both as a songwriter and performer. Mark Murphy -- I'd rather be covered in honey and tied down on a pile of red ants. Williams I haven't been knocked out by but don't have enough experience to feel sure. Quote
Justin V Posted June 28, 2013 Author Report Posted June 28, 2013 Some others worthy of recognition: Larry WIllis Stanley Cowell Charles Tolliver Quote
jazztrain Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Buddy De Franco is in the class of 2006. Service to jazz: Pete Fountain Phil Woods Charlie Haden Buddy De Franco McCoy Tyner Gerald Wilson ... Quote
Blue Train Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Despite my (and many others) many issues with William Parker (which fwiw are documented for a couple of more days on the other board), he deserves to be honored. His legacy will be immense and his impact on the music has been much more than most realize. and as wonderful drummers that both Billy Hart and Joe Chambers are, they cannot be honered before the *great* Andrew Cyrille As much as I respect Mr. Larry Kart, they are simply not in the same category of musician or impact on the jazz/music/improvisational scene in general as Andrew Cyrille. some of us might consider him the greatest living American drummer. My point was if you're going to bring up someone who has been mailing it in for over a decade....while Drew Gress hasn't. My choice for greatest American drummer would be Hamid Drake (the only person that can get Parker out of his coma mode), but he's not far behind. Then Chambers. How about Archie Shepp? And Wadada Leo Smith? I am on this bandwagon! Charles Tolliver Which once again brings up Chuck Nessa. Cuscuna only afterwards. Can anyone imagine Nessa with the resources that Cuscuna, or Keepnews had? Edited June 28, 2013 by Blue Train Quote
Steve Reynolds Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Oh I actually think for my taste Drake, Hemingway, Peterson, Rainey, and Cyrille are among the greatest drummers alive or even ever but maybe we are splitting hairs. I actually believe Drake on a good night is greatest jazz drummer I've ever seen or heard but Hamid Drake is not entering that club anytime soon if Roscoe Mitchell isn't in it. Quote
AllenLowe Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 I was just about to suggest Ros. Genius of a player. NEVER phones it in. Quote
sidewinder Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 Andrew Cyrille definitely should be recognised ! How about Louis Hayes too. Quote
uli Posted June 28, 2013 Report Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Oliver Lake Edited June 28, 2013 by uli Quote
HutchFan Posted April 4, 2016 Report Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) With the recent talk about the 2016 NEA Jazz Masters, I thought I'd start a "Who Should Be Next Honored Next Year?" thread.  But I did a quick search, and this thread was already here.  So, rather than duplicate, I'm giving this one a bump. For me, the first person who came to mind is Andrew Cyrille. Looks like I'm far from alone in thinking this; several of you have already mentioned him. Who else is missing?  An aside: It's sad to see how many artists mentioned at the beginning of this thread have already passed.  Tempus fugit.  EDIT: I just realized that neither Herbie Hancock nor Wayne Shorter has been honored yet. I think both of these guys are obvious candidates for inclusion. [Note: I was mistaken. They're in. See post below.] Edited April 4, 2016 by HutchFan Quote
clifford_thornton Posted April 4, 2016 Report Posted April 4, 2016 On 6/28/2013 at 4:33 PM, Steve Reynolds said: Oh I actually think for my taste Drake, Hemingway, Peterson, Rainey, and Cyrille are among the greatest drummers alive or even ever but maybe we are splitting hairs.  I actually believe Drake on a good night is greatest jazz drummer I've ever seen or heard  but Hamid Drake is not entering that club anytime soon if Roscoe Mitchell isn't in it. Cyrille is the only one who's been on the scene long enough to fit the bill. Plus, he's had a significant and lasting influence on the others you mention. I guess Shepp is getting the nod this year, which is cool. Quote
alankin Posted April 4, 2016 Report Posted April 4, 2016 I realized that the page with photos did not include all those who have received the award.  Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter and Cecil Taylor have all been honored.  You can use this link to check by last name: https://www.arts.gov/honors/jazz. There is a web cast of tonight's program starting at 8pm.  Broadcast starts at 7pm.  https://www.arts.gov/lifetime-honors/nea-jazz-masters/2016-nea-jazz-masters-tribute-concert-webcast A play bill for tonight: https://www.arts.gov/sites/default/files/2016-nea-jazz-masters-tribute-concert-playbill.pdf And here is the complete list: NEA JAZZ MASTERS 1982-2016 Muhal Richard Abrams Jamey Aebersold Toshiko Akiyoshi Mose Allison George Avakian David Baker Danny Barker Ray Barretto Kenny Barron Count Basie Louie Bellson Tony Bennett George Benson Art Blakey Carla Bley Anthony Braxton Bob Brookmeyer Cleo Patra Brown Ray Brown Dave Brubeck Kenny Burrell Gary Burton Donald Byrd Candido Camero Benny Carter Betty Carter Ron Carter Kenneth Clarke Buck Clayton Jimmy Cobb George Coleman Ornette Coleman Chick Corea Miles Davis Richard Davis Buddy DeFranco Jack DeJohnette Lou Donaldson Dorothy Donegan Paquito D'Rivera Harry "Sweets" Edison Roy Eldridge Gil Evans Art Farmer Ella Fitzgerald Tommy Flanagan Frank Foster Von Freeman Curtis Fuller Rudy Van Gelder Dizzy Gillespie Benny Golson Dexter Gordon Lorraine Gordon Charlie Haden Jim Hall Chico Hamilton Lionel Hampton Slide Hampton Herbie Hancock Barry Harris Roy Haynes Jimmy Heath Percy Heath Joe Henderson Luther Henderson Jon Hendricks Nat Hentoff Billy Higgins Andrew Hill Milt Hinton Bill Holman Shirley Horn Freddie Hubbard Bobby Hutcherson Milt Jackson Ahmad Jamal Keith Jarrett J.J. Johnson Elvin Jones Hank Jones Jonathan "Jo" Jones Quincy Jones Sheila Jordan Orrin Keepnews Andy Kirk Lee Konitz Hubert Laws Yusef Lateef John Levy John Lewis Ramsey Lewis David Liebman Abbey Lincoln Melba Liston Charles Lloyd Johnny Mandel The Marsalis Family (Ellis Jr., Wynton, Delfeayo, Jason, Branford) Tom McIntosh Jackie McLean Marian McPartland Carmen McRae Jay McShann James Moody Dan Morgenstern Anita O'Day Jimmy Owens Wendy Oxenhorn Eddie Palmieri Sun Ra Max Roach Sonny Rollins Annie Ross George Russell Pharoah Sanders Gunther Schuller Jimmy Scott Joe Segal Artie Shaw Archie Shepp Jimmy Smith Horace Silver Wayne Shorter Billy Taylor Cecil Taylor Clark Terry Toots Thielemans McCoy Tyner Sarah Vaughan Cedar Walton George Wein Frank Wess Randy Weston Joe Wilder Joe Williams Gerald Wilson Nancy Wilson Teddy Wilson Phil Woods Snooky Young  Quote
HutchFan Posted April 4, 2016 Report Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) 54 minutes ago, alankin said: I realized that the page with photos did not include all those who have received the award.  Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter and Cecil Taylor have all been honored.  You can use this link to check by last name: https://www.arts.gov/honors/jazz. My bad, alankin. Thanks for catching that mistake and posting the correct list of honorees. I've deleted the link in my post. Edited April 4, 2016 by HutchFan Quote
duaneiac Posted April 4, 2016 Report Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) I know my tastes are more mainstream, but looking over that list of past honorees, some of the names notable by their absence for me were: Ernie Andrews Dr. Lonnie Smith Junior Mance George Cables Bucky Pizzarelli Bob Wilber (I find it utterly inexcusable that they never got around to honoring Tito Puente while he was with us.) Edited April 4, 2016 by duaneiac Quote
bertrand Posted April 4, 2016 Report Posted April 4, 2016 I am going to the concert in DC tonight. I made my first nomination this year. I nominated Joe Chambers. He stays in the system 5 years. If I am up to doing the paperwork again next year, some cats on my radar are Gary Bartz, Dr. Lonnie, and two wild cards: Grachan and Freddie Redd. You can only make one nomination a year. Bertrand. Quote
duaneiac Posted April 5, 2016 Report Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) On 6/28/2013 at 10:34 AM, Larry Kart said: I like the idea of Sir Charles. Hyman, maybe, but so much of his work has been emulative -- not that he doesn't have his own thing, but those were the gigs he found himself in or took. Dorough and Frishberg aren't much to my taste -- the former clever hip on a good day but not enough vocal ability, the latter too often too cute both as a songwriter and performer. Mark Murphy -- I'd rather be covered in honey and tied down on a pile of red ants. Williams I haven't been knocked out by but don't have enough experience to feel sure. I saw this post earlier today, but did not have time to respond then. Since the original post discussed was one of mine made back on the AAJ board, I'll state a case for the artists i mentioned. Sir Charles Thompson -- Still with us at age 98! I don't know if he performs at all anymore.  An excellent pianist with a lengthy and varied career. If Dorothy Donegan was deserving of this honor, certainly Sir Charles is as well. Bob Dorough -- I disagree with the "not enough vocal ability" sentiment. As the saying goes, "Tain't whatcha use, it's the way that cha use it" and mr. Dorough uses his vocal limitations to suit the purposes of his songs, whether singing his own material (like his classic version of "Yardbird Suite") or others. He's also a good pianist and has recorded some as an instrumentalist. For a coulple of generations, at least, Vince Guaraldi and Mr. Dorough have been the first introduction to jazz for American kids. Mr. Dorough's work as musical director of the Schoolhouse Rock series, made education fun and memorable with songs like "Conjunction Junction", "Three Is a Magic Number" and "Electricity" (plus the series also introduced kids to the singing of Blossom Deaire, Jack Sheldon and Grady Tate). Plus, it's an axiom in jazz that any one who spent more than six and a half minutes in the recording studio with Miles Davis automatically qualifies as a "living legend"! Dave Frishberg -- Another good pianist and, once again, his vocal abilities suit his material quite well. I disagree with the "too cute" sentiment. Some of his songs are perhaps "clever", but "You Are There" is one of the most beautiful songs ever written about the loss and memory of a loved one and "Sweet Kentucky Ham" says a lot without ever quite saying it directly. He's had a long and varied career (he also wrote one of the more memorable Schoolhouse Rock songs, "I'm Just A Bill") and if Mose Allison deserved this honor, so does Mr. Frishberg, IMO. Mark Murphy -- Is now RIP, so he's not longer eligible for this award. Pity they didn't see fit to honor him. Jessica Williams -- I have been "knocked out by" her playing many times, both in concerts and on recordings. She is one of may all-time favorites and it's very inexplicable to me that she has yet to receive this honor. A couple of other names I would add, but I know they will never be considered as they are too West Coast/Hollywood for the East Coast jazz establishment: Terry Gibbs Lennie Niehaus Lalo Schifrin Guitarist Martin Taylor I would add, but I don't know if he ever became a US citizen.   Edited April 5, 2016 by duaneiac Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted April 5, 2016 Report Posted April 5, 2016 george braith deserves a honor for his continuing advancement of jazz. usu i say w/ these things who cares like r&r hall of fame- but in jazz's case theres a 25k prize along w/ the award.  so i say give it to george braith for sure one year soon Quote
Larry Kart Posted April 5, 2016 Report Posted April 5, 2016 Gibbs and Niehaus for sure in my book. Distinctive voices, considerable bodies of work, often at a very high level. And Gibbs embodies the spirit of jazz. Quote
blind-blake Posted April 5, 2016 Report Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) Chuck nessa and Michael Cuscuna  Edited April 5, 2016 by blind-blake Quote
Larry Kart Posted April 5, 2016 Report Posted April 5, 2016 2 hours ago, blind-blake said: Chuck nessa and Michael Cuscuna  Quote
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