couw Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Blue Note didn't have the manpower to watch that board and relied on us to police it ourselves. We failed. they made the rules and invented new ones as it went along, which means that they should have policed/moderated the thing as well. You can't expect everyone is gonna sit up straight when the teacher turns his back. I'm not defending anything written in the thread you pasted (what else did you save BTW?), but it was rather blue eyed of BN to think that we would behave just because we were on their Board. We may have failed that test and that was pretty stupid, but it was a stupid test to begin with as well. I propose we let this matter rest. It's been a year now. We have all found new places to hang out. We were wrong to post such crap and they were wrong in not moderating the board and allowed the crap to stand for days on end or even all eternity. The situation became unbearable and the matter was solved. Quit pointing fingers please, everyone. Oh and Kevin, I hope you stick around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Well, I registered there, and even got a message from administration with my name and password. . . . But when I log in it won't take those and tells me someone already has that name and password. Yes, that would be ME. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 (edited) I guess I'll sign up before long. As David Ayers has said we need a place to vent our feelings and get our view across. There doesn't seem any other avenue open to us to do this. I can't see myself going there very often though. Edited February 10, 2004 by JohnS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 (edited) Well after reading all that negativaty I can now remember what it was like on the BBNB ( where I andybleaden cunningly appeared as....wait for it A Bleaden.....see you never would have guessed it! This was appalling and needed colnic irrigation for those invovled with the nasty N Jones episodes........dreadful I will go at once and check the site out and just to post the rest of this message here. By the way considering the last link I changed my name to Norah Jones Ta da Who will take a bet on how long I last without huge legal expenditure PS The name is for sale for $0.10 with free postage and packing Edited February 10, 2004 by andybleaden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 (edited) Out of sheer boredom, I read through the historical thread that Kevin posted. I agree with his basic sentiment that this is the kind of discussion that ultimately killed the old board, but I think he missed a couple of other issues raised by this thread. I am sure I will get some criticism, but so be it. 1. No one in this thread (except me) raised the fact of how GROTESQUELY inappropriate it was for Tom to name Norah Jones' boyfriend, especially in response to a query about her love life. Tom was, for all intents and purposes, her supervisor at Blue Note, in the sense where he no doubt would have a say as to whether she remained on the label or not if this issue were ever to come up for discussion. Therefore, discussing her private life on the internet ON THE COMPANY'S OWN OFFICIAL WEBSITE, was quite simply sexual harassment. If she wanted to file a grievance, she would have a strong case. Of course, theoretically the thread is gone from the official site, but it has been conveniently reproduced here... Only one person had the right to identify Lee Alexander on the BN board as Norah's boyfriend, and that would have been Norah herself, had she chosen to do so. Even Lee Alexander would have been out of line to do so (as he did on a thread on 'musicboy's' Norah Jones site, which was reproduced elsewhere here but I do not have time to search for it), but that would have been between Norah and him. The one and only response Tom should have given to halfnote was that it none of his business and a wholly inappropriate question. Which leads to a discussion of the whole monitoring issue... 2. If you recall, Aric had been banned for a while from the old BN board (before or after the Norah's boyfriend thread, I'm not sure). When Aric first appeared with a 'Is Horace Parlan gay thread' which was inappropriate in some many ways, I suggested by the only means I had (through the questions for Tom thread) that he should somehow be stopped from posting such things. I never talked about banning him, but some people jumped to that conclusion and gave me alot of grief. Eventually, Aric did go overboard and got banned, at least for a while. If Blue Note had actually bothered to set up a system to enforce the rules of conduct that we agreed to when we signed on, none of this would have happened. This happened again when Deep/Wingy made an appearance making fun of a musician for a personal health problem. I took him to task for this, and got a lot of heat from a few members (again, the banning thing was brought up, although I had never actually used that word). As a response, I started the most offensive thread I could think of (one having to do with mass murderers through history), and sure enough, the same people defending Deep/Wingy jumped on me, thereby falling into the trap I had set for them. Again, if Tom had just bothered to enforce the rules of conduct, none of this would have happened. Now, it's a different board. We are no longer on the website of a corporation tha thas an image to maintain, but on the private site of a jazz group that wishes to increase its exposure. The rule are different. B3-er can choose to censure Deep/Wingy when he starts his grotesquely homophobic thread (which may or may not be tongue-in-cheek - I have no way of knowing, since 95% I haven't got a fucking clue as to what he's prattling on about), or choose to let him be. He may suffer some consequences, but it his choice whether he wants to deal with the consequences. In this case, I know that one of our members (and a very highly-valued one at that) left on account of Deep's behavior, and it is this board's loss. Bertrand. Edited February 10, 2004 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Can we exile Deep to Blue Note Europe? B) I loved the old Blue Note board, but I have no desire whatsoever to resurrect it. This place is even better IMO. Many of the same posters are here, the feel is somewhat looser and yet more civil at the same time, and I'd much rather live with Jim Alfredson's subjective cool than the the vacillating corporate authority of EMI. (Remember the new software that wouldn't allow you to type "Jew"? And how it succeeded only in offending the Jewish members of the board? ) And just take a look at this new BNBB--the parameters don't promise much. Will Tom Evered be there? For me he was a neat attraction on the old board--a jazz-loving human face for the BN program, and also somebody who jumped into discussions about literature, etc. He posted about 700 times on that board. Will "Ben" be as interesting or as prolific? Hell, "Ben" probably won't even be a "Bo." Nothing against it, it's great if they want to encourage more jazz discussion on the Internet, I'd never argue against that. It just inspires no interest at all in me--not enough, at least, to toggle over there more than once in a great, great while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Must admit we seem to have got a decent site here compared with when it was being full of hate and anger over at BnBB The thing that I do not miss was the back biting especially that bastard EDITED and his mate edited also who really was a pain ...joking aside. I much appreciate the independance we get here which seems to have ( recent moaning aside) gone away. There was moaning about posts, ebay heads up, sniping about trades, name dropping. This board has everything I need ( is this enough now????) and it looked kind of cold and empty when I went for a browse on BBNB Yurp. I came and went from the old blue note board because of the problems it had but I have stayed here and enjoy it. This site works nuff said Andy Bleaden alias Norah Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Wonder how long it'll last: click here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Kevin (and only Kevin), if you want to be so "close" to the music, learn to play an instrument. Knowing people and such still leaves you on the outside looking in("OUCH! MY EGO HURTS!"). In case you haven't noticed, Blue Note ADVERTISES. Imagine that, I can find out what's new from the label JUST BY OPENING A MAGAZINE! Otherwise, stop being such a fucking ninny. It's time to move on. Nothing personal. Love and Happiness (thanks for that one to a current BLUE NOTE recording artist), Jim "The Arrogant S.O.B." Sangrey, he who knows that what isn't "supposed to be" nevertheless is. Go tell Tom THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Wonder how long it'll last: click here... The Devil in Miss Jones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Kevin (and only Kevin), if you want to be so "close" to the music, learn to play an instrument. Knowing people and such still leaves you on the outside looking in("OUCH! MY EGO HURTS!"). In case you haven't noticed, Blue Note ADVERTISES. Imagine that, I can find out what's new from the label JUST BY OPENING A MAGAZINE! Otherwise, stop being such a fucking ninny. It's time to move on. Nothing personal. Love and Happiness (thanks for that one to a current BLUE NOTE recording artist), Jim "The Arrogant S.O.B." Sangrey, he who knows that what isn't "supposed to be" nevertheless is. Go tell Tom THAT. "Fucking ninny" and "nothing personal" in the same post? You see anything wrong with that? In your eyes, I'm not "close" to the music because I don't play? That's bullshit. Interesting to see you fall into this mindset... I would have guessed you thought better of us non-musicians, especially since you hang at this board which is comprised of about 95% non-musicians. So, qualifying your post with "Kevin and only Kevin" does nothing from preventing all the readers who aren't musicians (GASP!) from seeing it as a slam on them. Look at the post from our perspective and see how we see it. BTW, I've seen this attitude before on the 'Net... worst case being Bob Brookmeyer. I have always thought less of the musicians who think this way and it knocks you waaaaaay down my credibility list (like you care that some low-life non-musician feels). It's nice to know you think so highly of us peons. Just so we're even, I happen to think that your ability to play Jazz means squat when it comes to judging people so we can be even in our disdain for each other's "judgement". The way I see it, you don't like like it that I happened to think you were a jerk for pandering to Aric in this Norah Jones thread? Oh well, that's just the way this non-musician saw it. Others saw it that way too. We just have to continue to disagree on it. Just don't go blaming some corporate entity for shutting down a public forum with their name on it. Blame yourself for your attitude. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 guys, guys... easy please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Isn't it great, it feels like the BNBB all over again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Hey, I'm cool. I said exactly what I had to say, to exactly who I meant to say it to (and to nobody else), for exactly the reasons I intended to say it. 'Nuff said, and time to move on to meatier issues, like finding that other cover to GOIN' WEST, and making sure my vaults are locked. I'll let Kevin's post speak for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I refuse to take any blame for the BNBB closing down. Anyone who opens up a discussion forum on the internet that grows to over 4,000 members and doesn't moderate it is asking for trouble. It is my responsability to see that this board has adequate moderation. Right now two moderators are all we need. If we grow to over 4,000 members, you can bet your recent RVG purchase that we'll add one or two more moderators. Blue Note had a great thing and they killed it without realizing the power of what they had. Hell, I would've moderated it for $10 a day. An extra $300 a month? Sign me up! That's nothing to a record company that sold over 18 million copies of a CD. Exactly how were we, praytell, supposed to stop people from posting things like aric did? Get on his case? Call him stupid? That only "feeds the fire". The only way to stop it is to delete it. And none of us had the power to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I refuse to take any blame for the BNBB closing down. Anyone who opens up a discussion forum on the internet that grows to over 4,000 members and doesn't moderate it is asking for trouble. It is my responsability to see that this board has adequate moderation. Right now two moderators are all we need. If we grow to over 4,000 members, you can bet your recent RVG purchase that we'll add one or two more moderators. Blue Note had a great thing and they killed it without realizing the power of what they had. Hell, I would've moderated it for $10 a day. An extra $300 a month? Sign me up! That's nothing to a record company that sold over 18 million copies of a CD. Exactly how were we, praytell, supposed to stop people from posting things like aric did? Get on his case? Call him stupid? That only "feeds the fire". The only way to stop it is to delete it. And none of us had the power to do that. Which recent RVG purchase?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 In this case, I know that one of our members (and a very highly-valued one at that) left on account of Deep's behavior, and it is this board's loss. It is a loss to this board, but honestly some people FREAKED OUT before anything even happened with DEEP. Remember the silly "Is Board Degredation Inevitable?" thread? He's sequestered himself in one thread, which is awfully easy to ignore, even without an ignore feature. Personally, I take everything he says with 200lbs of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I refuse to take any blame for the BNBB closing down. Anyone who opens up a discussion forum on the internet that grows to over 4,000 members and doesn't moderate it is asking for trouble. It is my responsability to see that this board has adequate moderation. Right now two moderators are all we need. If we grow to over 4,000 members, you can bet your recent RVG purchase that we'll add one or two more moderators. Blue Note had a great thing and they killed it without realizing the power of what they had. Hell, I would've moderated it for $10 a day. An extra $300 a month? Sign me up! That's nothing to a record company that sold over 18 million copies of a CD. Exactly how were we, praytell, supposed to stop people from posting things like aric did? Get on his case? Call him stupid? That only "feeds the fire". The only way to stop it is to delete it. And none of us had the power to do that. Jim, you might not have personally helped to close that board but some posters did. I am not lumping everyone in on this. I look in the mirror and feel comfortable that I didn't post anything that caused Blue Note embarassment. Many others can feel the same. I just hate to see people like Jim Sangrey who act all righteous about the closure of that board like it was all Blue Note's fault. I couldn't disagree more. A lot of things combined to shut down that board. It might have been as simple as showing "approval" to some of the more outrageous behaviour. It might have been Aric's gangbang nuttiness. It might have been the "I'll burn it for you" posts or maybe the people who started posting anonymously to stir things up. Maybe it was a combination of all of the above. All I know is that one day I was talking to Blue Note, trying to get them to clean it up and I was told that some corporate weenies went there, saw a fetid cesspool (in their eyes), and the axe fell. I am still not happy about it. I miss the conversations we had... even with Tom Evered. In a way, I suppose I grudgingly agree that they should have shut it down to stop the insanity. However, I truly thought they were going to re-open that place. It saddens me that people here who used to go there can't see the European BN board as an opprotunity to continue to chat together and (maybe) get some corporate feedback. And yes, I mean in addition to organissimo. We can't have too many Jazz places. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Okay, the board finally let me log on! I'm there now as Pops Fan. I started a Una Mae Carlisle thread. I think her time has come. She LOOKS JUST LIKE NORAH JONES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 B3-er, The particular member in question did not leave because of an initial knee-jerk reaction to DEEP. He just got sick of the (small) number of board members who seemed to defend him no matter what. He and I just seem to think that some of his postings are indefensible, no matter how much of an intimate friend of his one might be. Ignoring his postings is easy (I do it every day), but having to read the postings of others who think there is nothing wrong with what he writes is much harder - it makes me question their sanity. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Ignoring his postings is easy (I do it every day), but having to read the postings of others who think there is nothing wrong with what he writes is much harder - it makes me question their sanity. You really care for the board member's sanity? That's nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Personally, I won't be checking out the board; I simply don't have the time. I've tried to add AAJ and Jazzcorner to my jazz board roaming, but there just aren't enough hours in the day. Unfortunately, I can't surf the web at work, so... As far as how or why the original BNBB ceased to exist, I'm a bit shocked that anyone is still hung up on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I am still not happy about it. I miss the conversations we had... even with Tom Evered. Why can't we have the same conversations over here? We're all the same people sans Tom Evered? It looks to me as if we have brought the BNBB over here with us and added some cool people (like Evan for example) and we're better than ever. What am I overlooking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I am still not happy about it. I miss the conversations we had... even with Tom Evered. Why can't we have the same conversations over here? We're all the same people sans Tom Evered? It looks to me as if we have brought the BNBB over here with us and added some cool people (like Evan for example) and we're better than ever. What am I overlooking? the average boardmember sanity level. It has drastically declined. thanks to Rock Center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 As far as how or why the original BNBB ceased to exist, I'm a bit shocked that anyone is still hung up on that... So am I. It's almost a year ago, for crying out loud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.