Robert Craft says Stravinsky had a gay lover while composing Le Sacre

[Larry Kart]

http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1275660.ece

"At one of the Firebird rehearsals, Ravel introduced the Russian to his pupil, the epicene Maurice Delage, who became Stravinskys lover as well as the surrogate parent for his young children during the composers frequent absences. These sojourns ... were in response to Diaghilev's order that Stravinsky supervise the corps de ballet, which was in desperate need of coaching for the forthcoming Rite of Spring premiere. During its composition, Delage was intimate in Stravinsky's life, even sharing his home in Clarens; a letter from him informs the unidentified recipient that Delage is with me every day. His affection for Stravinsky differed from Ravels. Delages letters to Stravinsky are embellished with kisses and hugs. When Delage refers to Stravinsky being in the arms of that fiend Diaghilev, the reader may understand it literally and wonder about those early years when Diaghilev treated Stravinsky as a minion on the way up. The Delage connection terminated with the Rite and Stravinsky's resumption of both his family life in Switzerland and his hyperactive heterosexual philandering."

[Blue Train]

So he basically finally wrote what he's been hinting at for while. Oh the horror, Stravinsky was ambisexual.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Blue Train

[Larry Kart]

So he basically finally wrote what he's been hinting at for while. Oh the horror, Stravinsky was ambisexual.

WTF? does anyone care?

I'm certainly not wringing my hands, but it was news to me, especially given IS's well-known track record of, as Craft puts it, "hyperactive heterosexual philandering." Guess I haven't been keeping up on the hinting.

Does it matter? Well, all the knots and whorls of IS's personality are interesting to me, as are all the knots and whorls of Schoenberg's. Why? Because, I think, they were both such striking and unusual people as people, as well as being great artists.

[7/4]

I didn't know Igor was into hyperactive heterosexual philandering.

Edited June 22, 2013 by 7/4

[Larry Kart]

Well, he certainly was stepping out with his second wife to be Vera (to the point of their setting up a second household) while he was married to his first wife, Katerina, and Coco Chanel claimed that she and IS had a big thing going at one time. I believe there was a lot more of that through the years, but this (i.e. those episodes) are common knowledge.

[Blue Train]

What bugs me is people going back to retro-whatever (in this case retrosexuality) to make money off people know dead....especially those that never publicly came out.

As long as is it involved consenting adults....I don't care what happens unless it had a direct impact on something.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Blue Train

[Bigshot]

Why does this matter?

[Larry Kart]

Why does this matter?

See my post #5 above on why it matters some to me and might matter some to some others. OTOH, I'm certainly not thinking of this myself in terms of denigrating IS in any way for whatever his sexual tastes might have been at any time. Further, given the sexual-ritual material of "Le Sacre," both in terms of the plot of the ballet (which IS certainly played a major role in shaping) and arguably of the music itself, it's not as though sexual themes flowing (so to speak) into art is an alien or somehow improper way of thinking about "Le Sacre" up to a certain point. Finally, I'm also interested in/curious about (in part because I once knew Robert Craft a bit and find him an interesting person in his own right) why Craft now -- at age 90 -- would decide to mention this in a public forum for the first time.

[AllenLowe]

geez guys enough of this sanctimonous crap. It's part of the person so it's part of the music. I'm with Larry on this. Hey, even Bird had a male lover (in the early days, in K.C.) -

Edited June 21, 2013 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

so we're agreed; we wont't even talk about who he was diddling when he wrote Petrouchka.

[Larry Kart]

so we're agreed; we wont't even talk about who he was diddling when he wrote Petrouchka.

Don't know his name, but he was well-hung ... by strings.

[Bigshot]

I think that the sexual history of posters in internet forums informs us about their comments and opinions. Perhaps we should all make a list...

[Larry Kart]

I think that the sexual history of posters in internet forums informs us about their comments and opinions. Perhaps we should all make a list...

OK -- you go first.

As for myself, I don't think I'm a figure of much inherent interest, as I consider Stravinsky to be, but if enough people feel otherwise, I'll begin my account at the womb and move onwards from there.

[gmonahan]

I think that the sexual history of posters in internet forums informs us about their comments and opinions. Perhaps we should all make a list...

OK -- you go first.

As for myself, I don't think I'm a figure of much inherent interest, as I consider Stravinsky to be, but if enough people feel otherwise, I'll begin my account at the womb and move onwards from there.

I think we can all somehow manage without that particular account, Larry!

gregmo

[AllenLowe]

allright I'll go first:

straight

[Chuck Nessa]

Whatever, though I think Craft is a man with many mirrors.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Chuck Nessa

[Blue Train]

Whatever, though I think Craft is a man with many mirrors.

Thank you for bringing sanity to this embarrassing thread.

[Larry Kart]

A jaundiced view of Craft from classical and jazz reedman and composer David Sherr, longtime L.A.-based studio freelancer (he's now based in the NYC area) whom some of you may recall as the lead altoist on the Sonny Criss-Horace Tapscott album "Sonny's Dream." All the links on Sherr's website are worth a visit. He's a terrific guy and a fine player, played the best Berio Sequenza for flute I've ever heard, miles beyond the one of the Boulez DGG box. The Craft account:

http://www.belairjazz.org/id29.html

Lots of soulful stories/memories on Sherr's site (under the link "Inside Studio A") about Buddy Collette, Sonny Criss, Plas Johnson, and others. Here's one about harpist Veryle Mills, Sherr's colleague on the Carol Burnett Show band:

'Verlye Mills was a fantastic musician and a very nice person. Buddy Collette wrote a three movement piece for flute and harp and asked Verlye and me to record it, which we did one afternoon. Verlye spoke in a sort of stream-of-consciousness style that included a lot of run-on sentences. I knew she had played on some of the Charlie Parker With Strings sessions and I asked her about them. “I never saw anyone that could drink like that, you know I’ve made two million dollars in my life and where is it now?” she said.'

[seeline]

About this whole topic: So?

Craft... that's a whole 'nother story; I personally don't trust him on much of anything.

Edited June 23, 2013 by seeline

[AllenLowe]

thank you for bringing embarassment to a sane thread.

[Larry Kart]

Tangential I know, but these three collections of David Sherr compositions and interpretations are excellent:

http://www.belairjazz.org/id1.html

http://www.belairjazz.org/id6.html

http://www.belairjazz.org/id12.html

[Larry Kart]

Two different versions of the same Sherr composition, "Birds of Omen," with the same performers (the second more clearly recorded, the first "live" and on video):

Sherr's "Otherworld Music" album can be found on Spotify.

[AllenLowe]

hey Larry - I spent about 3 hours last night reading all the Sherr pieces on his site. Great stuff, surprised I never ran into him on the net before. All ihs stuff is fascinating, but I love the road stories plus the studio muscian anecdotes.

and ignore these people here; this is the new Puritanism. They pretend that it's a matter of protecting privacy but are actually worried about their own latent tendencies. A couple of hetero guys like you and me don't have to worry about such things.

gotta go now and chop some wood.

Edited June 23, 2013 by AllenLowe

[Larry Kart]

hey Larry - I spent about 3 hours last night reading all the Sherr pieces on his site. Great stuff, surprised I never ran into him on the net before. All ihs stuff is fascinating, but I love the road stories plus the studio muscian anecdotes.

and ignore these people here; this is the new Puritanism. They pretend that it's a matter of protecting privacy but are actually worried about their own latent tendencies. A couple of hetero guys like you and me don't have to worry about such things.

gotta go now and chop some wood.

I agree that it's some form of new Puritanism (not sure what kind, but it seems to take on a special point when the subject is major artists, viz. "so what?" "Why does this matter?" etc.), but don't agree that whatever it is stems from people who "are worried about their own latent tendencies." But maybe you were joking around there, as you've been known to do.

[AllenLowe]

can't talk - gotta go pick up some chicks at the new strip bar in town.