The really great R&B saxophonists

[aparxa]

Carlos Ward played with The Playboys with Ron Hoden in the late 50s and in B.T. Express in the 70s.

[Big Beat Steve]

Warren Lucky and Al King are also on this Flyright CD:

It's a reissue of the LP that was listed above with some changes. Available here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=thunderbolt+r%26b+sax+instrumentals+flyright

According to the track listing this "Thunderbolt" CD is a combination of the above "Thunderbolt" LP (KK 778) and of part of the Buddy Tate/Frank Culley LP "Rock'n'Roll - Instrumentals for Dancing the Lindy Hop" on Krazy Kat KK784 (a slightly expanded reissue of a Baton LP). The Haywood Henry track and 2 of the Al King sides were omitted from the "Thunderbolt" CD (and one Warren Lucky track was added).

Edited June 20, 2013 by Big Beat Steve

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Cor - thanks folks, really interesting.

MG

[mjzee]

Just noticed this new release on Dusty Groove:

Killer cuts from Big John Greer – both a singer and saxophonist, and a postwar force in R&B with a sound that would have been right at home on King Records! Greer recorded most of this material for RCA – a label that never gave him the push he might have gotten from a more close-to-the-ground indie at the time – and there's a raw quality to these cuts that really rivals some of the best work of the period by artists like Roy Brown, Tiny Bradshaw, Bullmoose Jackson, and Jack McVea! John's as equally great serving up an instrumental solo as he is at delivering a vocal lead – and these tunes pack plenty of punch, with a raw, romping R&B groove throughout. The set features 27 tracks in all – all great all the way through – and titles include "Red Juice", "Big John's A Blowin", "Have Another Drink & Talk To Me", "If I Told You Once", "Play Me Some Loud Music", "Soon Soon Soon", "A Man & A Woman", "Ride Pretty Baby", "Woman Is A Five Letter Word", and "I'm The Fat Man".

[danasgoodstuff]

2 hours ago, mjzee said:

Just noticed this new release on Dusty Groove:

Killer cuts from Big John Greer – both a singer and saxophonist, and a postwar force in R&B with a sound that would have been right at home on King Records! Greer recorded most of this material for RCA – a label that never gave him the push he might have gotten from a more close-to-the-ground indie at the time – and there's a raw quality to these cuts that really rivals some of the best work of the period by artists like Roy Brown, Tiny Bradshaw, Bullmoose Jackson, and Jack McVea! John's as equally great serving up an instrumental solo as he is at delivering a vocal lead – and these tunes pack plenty of punch, with a raw, romping R&B groove throughout. The set features 27 tracks in all – all great all the way through – and titles include "Red Juice", "Big John's A Blowin", "Have Another Drink & Talk To Me", "If I Told You Once", "Play Me Some Loud Music", "Soon Soon Soon", "A Man & A Woman", "Ride Pretty Baby", "Woman Is A Five Letter Word", and "I'm The Fat Man".

If you translate from DG hyperbole to normal English, it's probably a pretty good period piece.

[Big Beat Steve]

This CD seems to duplicate a lot with the Big John Greer "I'm The Fat Man" CD on Rev-Ola Bandstand (CR BAND 17) from 2007. At least most of the tracks listed in the above description also figure on the Rev-Ola CD.
So anyone owning this CD ought to compare the track listings first.

I also wonder if the new Jasmine CD will be a a "real" CD or a CD-R.
 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Big Beat Steve

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

6 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

This CD seems to duplicate a lot with the Big John Greer "I'm The Fat Man" CD on Rev-Ola Bandstand (CR BAND 17) from 2007. At least most of the tracks listed in the above description also figure on the Rev-Ola CD.
So anyone owning this CD ought to compare the track listings first.

I also wonder if the new Jasmine CD will be a a "real" CD or a CD-R.
 

'I'm the Fat Man' doesn't have the original version of 'Rockin' with Big John', because it's compiled from RCA Victor masters. The Dusty Groove spiel says it's MOSTLY from RCA.

The RCA version isn't a patch on the original version on 'Sittin in with'. I've found the tape of the 78 my mate made in the seventies and ripped it. Anyone want a copy?

MG

[Dub Modal]

Is there anyone better than Bostic in this regard? Well, Jacquet is a personal favorite too...but man, Bostic seems to rule this territory. 

And for that matter, are there any better sounding CDs or other media out there other than those King Records CDs that sound a bit brittle? Pictured below are the ones I have - maybe the LPs, either OG or 80s reissues sound better? I noticed the US LP reissue of Dance to the Best of is stereo while the OG is of course mono. The Denmark reissue of Alto Magic appears to remain in mono...

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

'I'm the Fat Man' doesn't have the original version of 'Rockin' with Big John', because it's compiled from RCA Victor masters. The Dusty Groove spiel says it's MOSTLY from RCA.

The RCA version isn't a patch on the original version on 'Sittin in with'. I've found the tape of the 78 my mate made in the seventies and ripped it. Anyone want a copy?

MG

So I just checked my Leadbitter/Slaven and find that except for his two final sessions on King in 1956 (6 tracks - how many of which may have been ballads?) there is just his very first sesion (the one you allude to - for SIW in 1948), and his ENTIRE other output was for RCA (Victor or Groove). which does not leave much non-RCA room. I did not check the entire contents of that new reissue but just compared the tracks listed in the sales text above - and most of these were the same (a pity because according to Leadbitter/Slaven he recorded some 60 tracks for RCA - enough for 2 CDs without too many overlaps. Or is there that much dross?) Anyway ... it looks like a comparison would be a good thing to do for those who already own the Rev-Ola CD.

28 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Is there anyone better than Bostic in this regard? Well, Jacquet is a personal favorite too...but man, Bostic seems to rule this territory. 

And for that matter, are there any better sounding CDs or other media out there other than those King Records CDs that sound a bit brittle? Pictured below are the ones I have - maybe the LPs, either OG or 80s reissues sound better? I noticed the US LP reissue of Dance to the Best of is stereo while the OG is of course mono. The Denmark reissue of Alto Magic appears to remain in mono...

I am not quite sure ...
I'd rate the comparatively early post-war Earl Bostic high among those 40s/50s R&B sax men but am less sure about all those Bostic LPs that King released on him throughout the 50s and early 60s (sometimes newly recorded, sometimes recycling earlier-recorded items). I like most of of those I've heard (which are not nearly all) for what they are but they do tend to be a bit formulaic and more pop/r'n'r than more straight-ahead R&B. A bit like where Sam The Man Taylor veered off with some of his 50s MGM recordings.

[Rabshakeh]

There are a lot of names in the thread above, but what about LPs? Are there famous stand out classics or had the genre's lifecycle largely passed by the era of the LP?

[JSngry]

It's not any one player, but most of the Marvin Gaye records thru What's Going On thru In Our Lifetime had memorable/meaningful saxophonistical contributions throughout.

[Big Beat Steve]

21 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

There are a lot of names in the thread above, but what about LPs? Are there famous stand out classics or had the genre's lifecycle largely passed by the era of the LP?

Obviously classic R&B (not its evoutions into soul - not soul jazz where you had yur sax men too) HAD passed by the time 12in LPs were the most widespread media.

But there were lots on LP reissues of 40s/50s sax-led R&B recordings throughout subsequent decades of the vinyl era. They covered a wide field and lots of artists but obviously these were no comprehensive at all (but this would have been an impossible task- both in view of the time and the existing market and of the huge range of recordings). But there were enough to keep the buyers busy ...

Starting with period items such as this one (with a cover to match )
https://www.discogs.com/de/Various-Saxomaniac-Sax-Sounds/release/3513041
(predating, in a way, the reissues from the Apollo Catalog on the "Honkers & Bar Walkers" LP & CD releases),

there were many more, partly by the majors (the "Atlantic Honkers" 2-LP set,  "Honkers & Screamers" in the Savoy Roots of Rock'n'Roll twofer series), but also on various collector labels such as P-Vine (Japan), Riverboat (France), Swingtime (Denmark/UK), Oldie Blues (Netherlands), Queen-Disc (Italy), Ace as well as Flyright (UK) which reissued V.A. compilations, or Saxophonograph and also Whiskey Women and ... (Sweden) or Official (Denmark/UK) which featured individual artists (including  one by Big John Greer on Official, for instance).
 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

57 minutes ago, JSngry said:

It's not any one player, but most of the Marvin Gaye records thru What's Going On thru In Our Lifetime had memorable/meaningful saxophonistical contributions throughout.

Yeah, Wild Bill Moore took the solo on 'Mercy, mercy me (the ecology)' last time I heard it. Or maybe another cut from that.

MG 

[mjazzg]

I'm going out on a limb here and jumping some decades but David Sanborn on 'Young Americans' fits the bill for me. And Sanborn with Players Association or is that Disco Saxophone?

Edited September 30, 2021 by mjazzg

[Rabshakeh]

20 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Obviously classic R&B (not its evoutions into soul - not soul jazz where you had yur sax men too) HAD passed by the time 12in LPs were the most widespread media.

But there were lots on LP reissues of 40s/50s sax-led R&B recordings throughout subsequent decades of the vinyl era. They covered a wide field and lots of artists but obviously these were no comprehensive at all (but this would have been an impossible task- both in view of the time and the existing market and of the huge range of recordings). But there were enough to keep the buyers busy ...

Starting with period items such as this one (with a cover to match )
https://www.discogs.com/de/Various-Saxomaniac-Sax-Sounds/release/3513041
(predating, in a way, the reissues from the Apollo Catalog on the "Honkers & Bar Walkers" LP & CD releases),

there were many more, partly by the majors (the "Atlantic Honkers" 2-LP set,  "Honkers & Screamers" in the Savoy Roots of Rock'n'Roll twofer series), but also on various collector labels such as P-Vine (Japan), Riverboat (France), Swingtime (Denmark/UK), Oldie Blues (Netherlands), Queen-Disc (Italy), Ace as well as Flyright (UK) which reissued V.A. compilations, or Saxophonograph and also Whiskey Women and ... (Sweden) or Official (Denmark/UK) which featured individual artists (including  one by Big John Greer on Official, for instance).
 

Thanks!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I dunno if this is going to work, but for anyone interested, here's a list of all the honkers who got singles onto the R&B or pop charts from 1943 to 1954. It's an Excel 2010 file.

MG 

Honkers & Screamers singles on R&B charts for Organissimo.xlsx

[mjzee]

50 minutes ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

I dunno if this is going to work, but for anyone interested, here's a list of all the honkers who got singles onto the R&B or pop charts from 1943 to 1954. It's an Excel 2010 file.

MG 

Honkers & Screamers singles on R&B charts for Organissimo.xlsx

I had no idea Cecil Payne had a hit.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

31 minutes ago, mjzee said:

I had no idea Cecil Payne had a hit.

Oh good, it works.

Yeah. Diz had two; Manteca got to #13 on the R&B chart and Salt Peanuts on Guild got to #22 on the pop chart even. Charlie Parker only had one - 'Barbados' got to #15 on the R&B chart. Bop was popular back in the day in the black community. 'Course, they weren't honking records

 

MG

[mhatta]

19 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

Is there anyone better than Bostic in this regard? Well, Jacquet is a personal favorite too...but man, Bostic seems to rule this territory. 

 

The King years of Bostic is good, but I think as an alto screamer Bostic shined most when he was in Lionel Hampton's band.

 

[mhatta]

Seems nobody has mentioned Freddie Mitchell yet.  I think he was a great R&B saxophonist.

A nice bio: https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/artists-freddie-mitchell/

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Big Jay McNeely, driving 'em wild.  Lots of issues raised by this photo, but so what?

[mhatta]

I thought Wild Bill Moore's heyday was '40s (and some studio work such as Marvin Gaye's What's Going On), but he made 2 Jazz records in 1961 and they are not bad.  He plays Sister Caroline, a Nat Adderley tune!

 

Big Jay McNeely is sometimes despised as a mere honker & screamer, but actually he was an able Jazz tenor saxophonist.  His rendition of How High The Moon is elegant and soulful.

 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

9 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Big Jay McNeely, driving 'em wild.  Lots of issues raised by this photo, but so what?

I think that's Herb Hardesty honking live with Fats Domino. Fats had a great band. Big Jay wouldn't have had a white audience in the early fifties.

MG

[danasgoodstuff]

1 minute ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

I think that's Herb Hardesty honking live with Fats Domino. Fats had a great band. Big Jay wouldn't have had a white audience in the early fifties.

MG

It's been consistently ID'd by numerous sources as McNeely.  Not saying you're necessarily wrong - there's a lot of bad info out there.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

3 minutes ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

I think that's Herb Hardesty honking live with Fats Domino. Fats had a great band. Big Jay wouldn't have had a white audience in the early fifties.

MG

No doubt you're correct, but as consistently as Herb Hardesty.

MG