The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 I thought it would be nice to spare a thread for the great R&B saxmen, particularly (but not exclusively) of the 40s & 50s. So let's start with the 80s just because I'm listening to Gil Scott-Heron's 'From South Africa to South Carolina' which features one Bilal Sunni Ali taking a quite advanced, Pharoah Sanders-style, tenor solo on the track 'Essex'. So who is this guy, when he's not using his Islamic name? Anyone know him? And, since I've mentioned him, don't forget about Pharoah in this context... But OK, back to the old timers. And omigod weren't there a lot of them? In the order I thought of them... Paul Williams Wild Bill Moore Jimmy Forrest Jimmy Coe Hal Singer Red Prysock Sil Austin Maxwell Davis Big Jim Wynn Morris Lane Jack McVea Illinois Jacquet (I should have put him first) Weasel Parker Harold 'Geezil' Minerve Willis 'Gator Tail' Jackson Eddie Chamblee Bubba Broooks Little Willie Jackson Bullmoose Jackson Clyde 'Blowtop' Lynn Lynn Hope Big John Greer Joe Houston Earl Effin' Bostic (should have started with him, too ) Frank 'Floorshow' Culley Lee Allen Alvin Tyler Herb Hardesty Big Jay McNeely Sam 'The Man' Taylor Ray Abrams James Von Streeter Lorenzo Holden Preston Love Jackie Kelso Buddy Floyd William Gaither Benjamin Waters Eddie Taylor Big Al Sears Plas Johnson (he should be in big letters) Paul Bascomb Fred Jackson Jimmy Wright Jesse Powell Buddy Lucas David 'Fathead' Newman King Curtis Hank Crawford Fred Ford Red Holloway Maceo Parker Pee Wee Ellis Nearly forgot Clifford Scott!!! Gene 'Daddy G' Barge Arthur 'Fats' Theus Omigod forgot Louis Jordan!!! Eddie 'Cleanhead' Vinson Don Wilkerson Bumps Myers Holley Dismukes Bloody 'ell! Not one of these could Sanborn cut. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Forgot Charlie Brown Rusty Bryant MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 John Hardee? Kind of a straddler... Ditto Tom Archia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) How 'bout: Julian Dash and Noble "Thin Man" Watts Edited June 15, 2013 by paul secor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 since you've got Maceo and Pee Wee, you ought to also list: Nat Jones St. Clair Pinckney (St. Clair ... St. Clair? ... St. Clair!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Great list, MG! So the idea is that people like Gene Ammons and Arnett Cobb are too much jazz to be called R&B? Edited June 15, 2013 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 and Lester Young, of course - the pop of them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aparxa Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Eli Fontaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Cozy Eggleston - a great one Warren Lucky Johnny Board Fats Noel Al King Tab Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 I also forgot Buddy Banks Harold 'Pop Pop' Rollins Schoolboy Porter I think it would be good if we had a post about many of those less well-known guys. (I mean a post each.) MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Illinois Jacquet (I should have put him first) Definitely. Saw him just the once - towards the end of his life, in NYC Town Hall no less - and was hugely impressed with his big tenor sound. What a great showman he was. The big band he had for that gig was damn good too. Edited June 16, 2013 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 So I'll start with tenor player Buddy Banks. Buddy ran a little R&B band on the west coast in the forties, recording for a variety of labels including: Specialty, Sterling, United Artist, Melodisc & Modern. Only hit was 'Voo-it, voo-it' on Specialty, featuring Marion 'Blues Woman' Abernathy. What was different about Buddy's band was that he had a trombonist (mostly Wiley Huff, who later spent quite a time with Johnny Otis' band) instead of a trumpet. This gave the band a nice mellow sound. Official issued an LP compiling most of the band's material in the 80s: 'Happy home blues'. I see there's a CD out on Blue Moon. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Add Leroy "Hog" Cooper (baritone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Oh yes. Being a Texan, you can write something about him, Fathead Don Wilkerson Wild Bill Moore Jesse Powell King Curtis Clifford Scott Arthur 'Fats' Theus MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) I couldn't add anything beyond what's already been established elsewhere, but it is worth mentioning -- again -- that Dallas gave us, via Ray Charles, Fathead and Cooper. http://www.popmatters.com/pm/article/ray-charles-style-formed-in-south-dallas-home/ Outside of dates with Ray and his fellow Charles bandmates, Cooper can be heard to advantage on the Buster Smith LP that Atlantic issued in the late 50s. IIRC, there are some good anecdotes re: King Curtis in Ornette Coleman's section of Spellman's 4 LIVES IN THE BEBOP BUSINESS. Jim will know more about the under-documented guys of a later generation. And, while he's not R & B -- call it "gospel," but carefully -- if you not yet heard Fort Worth's Brother Vernard Johnson... do! Edited June 16, 2013 by Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Richard "Sesame Street" Thomas - one of the biggest fullest fattest tenor sounds I've ever heard in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I couldn't add anything beyond what's already been established elsewhere, but it is worth mentioning -- again -- that Dallas gave us, via Ray Charles, Fathead and Cooper. http://www.popmatters.com/pm/article/ray-charles-style-formed-in-south-dallas-home/ Outside of dates with Ray and his fellow Charles bandmates, Cooper can be heard to advantage on the Buster Smith LP that Atlantic issued in the late 50s. IIRC, there are some good anecdotes re: King Curtis in Ornette Coleman's section of Spellman's 4 LIVES IN THE BEBOP BUSINESS. Jim will know more about the under-documented guys of a later generation. And, while he's not R & B -- call it "gospel," but carefully -- if you not yet heard Fort Worth's Brother Vernard Johnson... do! Didn't realise Vernard came from Ft Worth. When I got that album, I thought there was a lot of King Curtis in his style. But JeffCrom has some of his earlier Savoy albums and I think he said Vernard wasn't playing like that, then. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Paul Williams was playing baritone sax in Detroit who was discovered in 1948 when Teddy Reig visited the town to check out King Porter's band. He decided he didn't want the rest of the band - just Williams. A contract with Savoy followed and Williams produced 8 R&B hit singles for the label: 35-30 (#8) The twister pts 1 & 2 (#15) Waxie Maxie (#11) Walkin' around (#6) The hucklebuck (#1 for 14 weeks - the biggest R&B hit of 1949) House rocker (#12) He knows how to Hucklebuck (#13) Pop corn (#13) A nice compilation of his stuff is It's a 48 track download from Amazon UK. If you've seen the video material of 'Showtime at the Apollo', the Paul Williams band provides all or most of the backings in that. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Herb Hardesty next I love this photo of Herb rolling on the floor and honking with the Fats Domino band. Here's a recent photo. Herb was born in 1925 and is still around. Here's his website. http://www.herbert-hardesty.com/bioe.htm The world would be a less wonderful place without Herb's stripped down and gutrending baritone solo on Fats' recording of 'Blue Monday'. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Do Lee Allen and Red Tyler qualify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 They're listed above, too. Not doing a piece on every one all at once. You can do them, if you like. I know you like Red. Don't forget to mention his work with Jack McDuff. MG Cozy Eggleston - a great one Warren Lucky Johnny Board Fats Noel Al King Tab Smith I don't know Warren Lucky or Al King, Paul. Please tell us about them. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Great lists, MG! (And great aditions, particularly those by Paul Secor) What more to add? Just some thoughts: You mentioned BIg Jay McNeely and Joe Houstons among the typical honkers. In the same vein, no appreciation for Chuck Higgins? Along with Gene Ammons and Arnett Cobb (whose R&B output would have qualified them), how about Jimmy Forrest in his early "Night Train" years? And Leo Parker straddled the fence towards R&B at times too. And how about Sam Butera (though he was white)? Then .... Charlie Singleton Charlie Ferguson Marvin Johnson Lem Johnson Haywood Henry and ... Sax Mallard!! Cozy Eggleston - a great one Warren Lucky Johnny Board Fats Noel Al King Tab Smith I don't know Warren Lucky or Al King, Paul. Please tell us about them. MG Check out this: They're on it. Fierce!! http://bebopwinorip.blogspot.de/2008/03/warren-lucky-al-king-and-haywood-henry_12.html Bloody 'ell! Not one of these could Sanborn cut. Word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Paul Williams was playing baritone sax in Detroit who was discovered in 1948 when Teddy Reig visited the town to check out King Porter's band. He decided he didn't want the rest of the band - just Williams. A contract with Savoy followed and Williams produced 8 R&B hit singles for the label: 35-30 (#8) The twister pts 1 & 2 (#15) Waxie Maxie (#11) Walkin' around (#6) The hucklebuck (#1 for 14 weeks - the biggest R&B hit of 1949) House rocker (#12) He knows how to Hucklebuck (#13) Pop corn (#13) A nice compilation of his stuff is It's a 48 track download from Amazon UK. If you've seen the video material of 'Showtime at the Apollo', the Paul Williams band provides all or most of the backings in that. MG Tenor saxist Noble Watts recorded with Paul Williams on Vee Jay (and according to one discography, possibly on Groove). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Didn't Yusef Lateef play tenor on some 50's R & B records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Great lists, MG! (And great aditions, particularly those by Paul Secor) What more to add? Just some thoughts: You mentioned BIg Jay McNeely and Joe Houstons among the typical honkers. In the same vein, no appreciation for Chuck Higgins? Along with Gene Ammons and Arnett Cobb (whose R&B output would have qualified them), how about Jimmy Forrest in his early "Night Train" years? And Leo Parker straddled the fence towards R&B at times too. And how about Sam Butera (though he was white)? Then .... Charlie Singleton Charlie Ferguson Marvin Johnson Lem Johnson Haywood Henry and ... Sax Mallard!! Cozy Eggleston - a great one Warren Lucky Johnny Board Fats Noel Al King Tab Smith I don't know Warren Lucky or Al King, Paul. Please tell us about them. MG Check out this: They're on it. Fierce!! http://bebopwinorip.blogspot.de/2008/03/warren-lucky-al-king-and-haywood-henry_12.html Bloody 'ell! Not one of these could Sanborn cut. Word! Warren Lucky and Al King are also on this Flyright CD: It's a reissue of the LP that was listed above with some changes. Available here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=thunderbolt+r%26b+sax+instrumentals+flyright According to the liner notes, Warren Lucky played with Ernie Fields c. 1944-45 and played and recorded with Dizzy's big band - 1945-1946. The selections on the Flyright CD were recorded in 1956 for Joe Davis' Jay-Dee label. The Al King titles on the Flyright CD were recorded for MGM in 1952 and Davis in 1956. There is little information included in the notes except for the fact that when the certificates for registration for the MGM sides came through, "he was playing at The Hurricane on Center Avenue in Pittsburgh." Joe Davis produced the MGM sides and must have thought highly of Al King to record him over three years later. Edited June 19, 2013 by paul secor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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