mikeweil Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Posted February 7, 2004 My favorite Roy Ayers (that I've heard) is on David Newman's Atlantic album Newmanism, from the early 1970s. The two of them are both great on this recording. Roy Ayers also plays on David Newman's 1971 Atlantic LP "Lonely Avenue". Didn't know he is on "Newmanism" /which is from 1974 or 74, have to get me this one! Thanks for pointing me to it! Quote
mikeweil Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Posted February 7, 2004 Thanks Mike! But rather than listen, I might get the REAL one from the US right away! It's not only sound - I don't like the flimsy ZYX-digi-packaging either. However, this sounds like one to check out. And maybe a good way to get to know Tjader. Perhaps the Concords are aesier to get for you. There was a 2 CD compilation from them (available at Zweitausendeins as well), but they are all nice, and the band was very together, with Mark Levine (a geat pianist/arranger for Latin style), Poncho Sanchez, and Roger Glenn or Gary Foster. I'll post my Tjader Fantasy recommendations later, it's hard for me to pick one - I have 'em and love 'em all ... Quote
michel devos Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) [. Now who voted for Lytle? I like Johnny Lytle sound : it blends beautifully with the organ background, with rich harmonies and colourfull tones...Especially Moonchild and Village Caller. I liked also Walt Dickerson in concert, playing tasty variations on To my Queen...And finally, let's have a word for Freddie McCoy... Edited February 7, 2004 by michel devos Quote
DavidM Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 While Huteherson definitely gets my vote, a couple of other talented but lesser knows to mention are Jay Hoggard and Bobby Naughton. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted February 7, 2004 Report Posted February 7, 2004 While Hutcherson is the obvious choice (his importance in the instrument's history) and Dickerson is a great player as well, I picked Teddy Charles. He's a great bandleader and arranger, and his quirky phrasing has more warmth than Walt's. He's an unsung hero of the instrument whose recordings with the PJQ, the Tentet and his "Jazz in the Garden" should not be missed. Whither Karl Berger? His first recording, albeit on piano, was in '64 I believe, and his dates with Don Cherry and as a leader for ESP and Milestone are great advances in the freebop tradition. Nice to see mention of Naughton and Hoggard, two very interesting players of the '70s. OTIC on... Al Francis and Earl Griffiths each made scant recordings as sidemen, but showed great direction on the vibes early in the decade. Lest we forget the great showing of Charles Moffett on the vibes for his own Savoy date ('68)? He's not often thought of as a vibist, but he was really something. Quote
JSngry Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 They used to be called "milk bottles", now they're called "doorbells". Time marches on. Quote
Big Al Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 I'll post my Tjader Fantasy recommendations later, it's hard for me to pick one - I have 'em and love 'em all ... You know it! I forgot to mention Black Orchid, as nice a cross-section of what Tjader was doing in the late 50's as you'll ever find! Quote
brownie Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 Voted for Walt Dickerson. Over Bags (THE bop era vibraphone player) and Hutcherson, two favorites. But Dickerson produced a batch of innovative albums in the sixties that placed him in a category of his own. And he has kept releasing non spectacular but highly individual and intense albums that make him one of the most authentic creator of music. And also one of the most underrated... Quote
Dmitry Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 There's something almost criminally wrong here ... 4. Walt Dickerson [ 4 ] [10.53%] Quote
mikeweil Posted February 8, 2004 Author Report Posted February 8, 2004 I like Johnny Lytle sound : Especially ... Village Caller. I think Village Caller is the most often played vinyl LP in my collection!!! Quote
mikeweil Posted February 8, 2004 Author Report Posted February 8, 2004 There's something almost criminally wrong here ... 4. Walt Dickerson [ 4 ] [10.53%] I think a voting system similar to that of the down beat critics poll, where you can distribute 10 votes between up to five artists, with a maximum of five votes for each artist, would give a much more accurate picture. As the comments tell we all love more than one of them. Quote
BruceH Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 Numbers 6 through 9 on the list I'm not really familiar with at all. Much as I love Jackson, Hutcherson, and Dickerson, I threw my vote to Cal Tjader. Why? Two words: "Ginza Samba" Quote
GA Russell Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 I voted for Cal Tjader. I'm a bit ambivalent about him. He's never impressed me that he was a great player, and I wouldn't give five stars to any of his albums I've heard. But I love everything of his I have. I don't think he ever made a bad record, or even a mediocre one. He consistently walked the line between good art and music that wouldn't chase non-jazz fans out of the room. Quote
chris olivarez Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 I went with Cal Tjader. You can make a good case for anyone on this list but I went with Cal because- well he's a hero of mine. I do wish Dave Pike would have been on the list too. Quote
Brandon Burke Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 I voted for Hutch. His contribution to the early avant-garde is crucial. Quote
king ubu Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 (edited) Thanks Mike! But rather than listen, I might get the REAL one from the US right away! It's not only sound - I don't like the flimsy ZYX-digi-packaging either. However, this sounds like one to check out. And maybe a good way to get to know Tjader. Perhaps the Concords are aesier to get for you. There was a 2 CD compilation from them (available at Zweitausendeins as well), but they are all nice, and the band was very together, with Mark Levine (a geat pianist/arranger for Latin style), Poncho Sanchez, and Roger Glenn or Gary Foster. I'll post my Tjader Fantasy recommendations later, it's hard for me to pick one - I have 'em and love 'em all ... Mike I missed your post in reply to my question. Is this (AMG) the Concord 2CD in question? (Concord is not distributed here, it happens very seldom I see a Concord disc in a shop here!) How about the Verve/Polygram CDs? Several Shades of Jade/Breeze from the East (AMG) Cal Tjader Plays the Contemporary Music of Mexico and Brasil (AMG) Soul Sauce (AMG) Soul Burst (AMG) El Sonido Nuevo: The New Soul Sound (AMG) Soul Bird Whiffenpoof (AMG) How are they? Look like a nice bunch, too! ubu Edited February 10, 2004 by king ubu Quote
tjobbe Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 (edited) Hi ubu, about the Concords: up to now it was easier to get them direclty from the US as the german disributor Inak started just recently with bring some of them into the market. Check here for available records. Currently only the SACD La Onda va bien is registered there. on the Verve's: I have the "Soul-ones" and can recommend them all Cheers, Tjobbe EDIT: not sure who's distributing the concords in Switzerland, as there is/was also some distribution in Austria available Edited February 10, 2004 by tjobbe Quote
king ubu Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 Hi ubu, about the Concords: up to now it was easier to get them direclty from the US as the german disributor Inak started just recently with bring some of them into the market. Check here for available records. Currently only the SACD La Onda va bien is registered there. on the Verve's: I have the "Soul-ones" and can recommend them all Cheers, Tjobbe EDIT: not sure who's distributing the concords in Switzerland, as there is/was also some distribution in Austria available Thanks, tjobbe! Pretty proud prizes though they have! I think buying from the US might be cheaper! ubu Quote
mikeweil Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Posted February 10, 2004 Is this (AMG) the Concord 2CD in question? (Concord is not distributed here, it happens very seldom I see a Concord disc in a shop here!) So what DO you get in the alps??! This double is nice, as you get two complete LPs: "Gozame! Pero Ya" is a nice Latin date with his working band, including Poncho Sanchez, Mark Levine and Roger Glenn, "The Shining Sea" is a nice straightahead date with Scott Hamilton and Hank Jones. The one that Zweitausendeins had was a real compilation of his Concord discs, so I'd say the one you found is the better choice for a potential completist. Quote
king ubu Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 Potential completist I am (HELL!! I'd love to be different, but... ) Mike, so I guess that was one of those Snapper releases? I got such a one from Mel Tormé, and it provides a pretty fine overview (I will NOT get all his Concords in full, as I suppose some of that stuff is rather boring and stiff, so in that case, the comp is the right thing for me. Only later I found "Too Darn Hot" with two full albums for 10 CHF, some 6.5 euros, which was quite a good find!) How about the Verves? You know them? I guess some of them are to be bought rather quick, as they're only available in the US, and come from the days when Verve did their reissues the right way... ubu Quote
mikeweil Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Posted February 10, 2004 (edited) How about the Verve/Polygram CDs? Several Shades of Jade/Breeze from the East (AMG) Cal Tjader Plays the Contemporary Music of Mexico and Brasil (AMG) Soul Sauce (AMG) Soul Burst (AMG) El Sonido Nuevo: The New Soul Sound (AMG) Soul Bird Whiffenpoof (AMG) How are they? Look like a nice bunch, too! I for my personal taste have mixed feelings about many of the Verve LPs (only two thirds were on US CD so far). "Several Shades of Jade/Breeze from the East" for my ears are the two most commercial dates Tjader ever did - producer Creed Taylor engaged musicians from his pool of studio pros rather than Cal's (always good) working band, and the big band and vocals arrangements by Lalo Schifrin or Stan Applebaum are part okay, part on the verge of the unbearable, i.e. pretty corny. "Cal Tjader Plays the Contemporary Music of Mexico and Brasil" was a special project initiated by Clare Fischer to feature the compositions of some Mexican named Mario RuÃz Armengol, and since noone knew him in the US, Creed Taylor insisted on some bossa novas as well. The latter are very tasteful as usual, the Mexican boleros I think are equally great, but probably an aquired taste for a jazz lover due to the (wordless) vocals. "El Sonido Nuevo: The New Soul Sound" is one of two collaborations of Tjader with Eddie Palmieri, who had just imported the Mozambique rhythm from Cuba, and changed his band sound to the famous "La Perfecta" combination of a trombone section and rhythm, this is leaning more towards "salsa" than most of Cal's records. This is one I'd recommend - the CD includes 6 bonus tracks from other Verve LPs. The other Palmieri record was Bamboleaté on Tico, bootlegged many times and maybe available as a used CD, just vibes, piano, rhythm, and salsa vocals, a little short but good. (I'd suggest you wait a little on this ... The three "Soul" albums are all a mixture of Cal's working band with some studio guys or jazz soloists thrown in, I'd say buy one that's easy to get and cheap, like the LPR Soul Bird, and if you like it, you will like the others. "Soul Sauce" has some extended Descargas (jam session in Cuban language) with Donald Byrd, Jimmy Heath and Kenny Burrell. The best of Cal's Verve CDs, Sona Libré, with Clare Fischer, is OOP. The two compilations available are good for an overview and include some tracks not otherwise available on CD. Edited February 10, 2004 by mikeweil Quote
king ubu Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 Thanks for your elaborat post, Mike! I can wait a little, of course (that's the completist's fate, anyway...) The Mexican one sounds interesting to my ears! I know very very little about mexican music (I think some of the stuff Charlie Haden did on "Nocturne" was mexican, yes? Or, well, at least americanized mexican music played by jazz pros...). "El sonido nuevo" sounds good, too, and as far as the Soul ones are concerned, I will follow your advice. However, the one with some descargas sounds fine to my ears! (That jam feel was what I loved that much about the late Don Ruben Gonzalez' second LP for World Circuit). ubu Quote
Big Al Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 Just to add to Mike's already helpful post about Tjader Verve stuff: 1. SOUL BURST has Chick Corea on it. I've only heard clips of it from cheap-cds, but plan on getting it very soon. 2. PLAYS THE CONTEMPORARY MUSIC OF.... is nice and relaxing, but nothing too substantial. Still, for the money, it's a good buy. 3. Same goes for SOUL BIRD: WHIFFENPOOF. Nothing earth-shattering, but nice to have on in the background. 4. SOUL SAUCE, OTOH, should be played as loud as possible! 5. I owned SSOJ/BFTE once. Once. Quote
JSngry Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 Any thoughts on Tjader's Skye output? Quote
king ubu Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 Just to add to Mike's already helpful post about Tjader Verve stuff: 1. SOUL BURST has Chick Corea on it. I've only heard clips of it from cheap-cds, but plan on getting it very soon. 2. PLAYS THE CONTEMPORARY MUSIC OF.... is nice and relaxing, but nothing too substantial. Still, for the money, it's a good buy. 3. Same goes for SOUL BIRD: WHIFFENPOOF. Nothing earth-shattering, but nice to have on in the background. 4. SOUL SAUCE, OTOH, should be played as loud as possible! 5. I owned SSOJ/BFTE once. Once. Thanks, Al! Please report back once you heard "Soul Burst"! I won't be able to buy the CDs right now. ubu Quote
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