Monk on front page of CNN.com

[Aggie87]

Opened up CNN.com to check the headlines, only to find myself face to face with Thelonious Monk! Not a bad thing at all. The article's about the Baroness Pannonica. Nice to see that hitting the mainstream media.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/11/showbiz/hannah-rothschild-jazz-baroness/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

[GA Russell]

Thanks Aggie! I had no idea that she abandoned her husband and five children. Puts her in a different light.

[Quincy]

Betcha jumped a little when you saw that. Aside from the good news of seeing Monk front & center, it also means it's a slow news day for him to be there. Thanks for the tip.

[JSngry]

This should be on HBO.

[flat5]

Quite a bit about her in the book I'm reading: Thelonious Monk - The Life and Times of an American Original

It's more like her family disowned her.

Edited April 15, 2013 by flat5

[JETman]

People I've spoken to have always considered her analogous in the jazz world to the originator of the "plaster casters" in the rock world.

[imeanyou]

People I've spoken to have always considered her analogous in the jazz world to the originator of the "plaster casters" in the rock world.

Were any of the people you spoke to people who knew Nellie Monk or Bird or Gigi Gryce or Sonny Rollins or Art Blakey or Barry Harris? Go ahead and call her a 'groupie' if that's what you think she was.

[JETman]

People I've spoken to have always considered her analogous in the jazz world to the originator of the "plaster casters" in the rock world.

Were any of the people you spoke to people who knew Nellie Monk or Bird or Gigi Gryce or Sonny Rollins or Art Blakey or Barry Harris? Go ahead and call her a 'groupie' if that's what you think she was.

Is there any other way that one could even come close to justifying leaving FIVE children behind? As a parent myself, I can't see it.

[flat5]

You don't know anything about her.

[JETman]

You don't know anything about her.

I wasn't there, no. But this is certainly a unique twist on fandom -- jazz fans worshipping another jazz fan. Yes, I realize that we all have our own take on worshipping those who have given a lot to further the music -- the Chris Albertson's, the Dan Morgenstern's, the Michael Cuscuna's, etc. But this may border on being quite the reach for those who refuse to acknowledge the complete picture. I avoided usage of the terms "groupie" and "jazz ho" for this very reason. I knew that there would be people out there who would take all of this a little too personally. Whatever she was, or whatever her motivation, let's all just agree on the fact that her efforts were appreciated within the jazz community. If those efforts translated to furtherance of the music, then we're all better off for them.

[imeanyou]

You don't know anything about her.

I wasn't there, no. But this is certainly a unique twist on fandom -- jazz fans worshipping another jazz fan. Yes, I realize that we all have our own take on worshipping those who have given a lot to further the music -- the Chris Albertson's, the Dan Morgenstern's, the Michael Cuscuna's, etc. But this may border on being quite the reach for those who refuse to acknowledge the complete picture. I avoided usage of the terms "groupie" and "jazz ho" for this very reason. I knew that there would be people out there who would take all of this a little too personally. Whatever she was, or whatever her motivation, let's all just agree on the fact that her efforts were appreciated within the jazz community. If those efforts translated to furtherance of the music, then we're all better off for them.

So what's the 'complete picture' regarding her abandonment of her kids? I don't think it was simply a case of 'see ya, I want to hang out with jazzers and smoke weed, be good for your father'. By your reckoning, dereliction of one's familial obligations connotes promiscuity. It's not about jazz fans 'worshipping' anybody. I can't recall anyone close to Monk or anyone else in that milieu even alluding to her having sexual liaisons with Monk or Bird or those she supported. I don't think it's wise to insinuate just because someone else's views on parenthood don't chime with yours. If you have anything that sheds more light on her motivations let's hear it. So far you've given us nothing.

[JETman]

You don't know anything about her.

I wasn't there, no. But this is certainly a unique twist on fandom -- jazz fans worshipping another jazz fan. Yes, I realize that we all have our own take on worshipping those who have given a lot to further the music -- the Chris Albertson's, the Dan Morgenstern's, the Michael Cuscuna's, etc. But this may border on being quite the reach for those who refuse to acknowledge the complete picture. I avoided usage of the terms "groupie" and "jazz ho" for this very reason. I knew that there would be people out there who would take all of this a little too personally. Whatever she was, or whatever her motivation, let's all just agree on the fact that her efforts were appreciated within the jazz community. If those efforts translated to furtherance of the music, then we're all better off for them.

So what's the 'complete picture' regarding her abandonment of her kids? I don't think it was simply a case of 'see ya, I want to hang out with jazzers and smoke weed, be good for your father'. By your reckoning, dereliction of one's familial obligations connotes promiscuity. It's not about jazz fans 'worshipping' anybody. I can't recall anyone close to Monk or anyone else in that milieu even alluding to her having sexual liaisons with Monk or Bird or those she supported. I don't think it's wise to insinuate just because someone else's views on parenthood don't chime with yours. If you have anything that sheds more light on her motivations let's hear it. So far you've given us nothing.

First of all, I stated what I had heard. Secondly, you're taking this personally which might indicate that you know more. If that's the case, why don't you educate us instead of railing against what you think my views on the whole situation might be? In other words, if I've "given us nothing", make it your point to give us something. That might serve the board and general interest better than another round of personal attacks.

[Bluesnik]

Nice video of Round Midnight. I had never seen him move his foot in such funny way as here...

[erwbol]

I didn't read Hannah Rothschild's book, but did see her documentary The Jazz Baroness previously broadcast on the BBC. The DVD is only £5.50 on amazon.co.uk and apparently PAL region free.

Her children did visit her in her 'cat house' if I remember correctly.

[imeanyou]

You don't know anything about her.

I wasn't there, no. But this is certainly a unique twist on fandom -- jazz fans worshipping another jazz fan. Yes, I realize that we all have our own take on worshipping those who have given a lot to further the music -- the Chris Albertson's, the Dan Morgenstern's, the Michael Cuscuna's, etc. But this may border on being quite the reach for those who refuse to acknowledge the complete picture. I avoided usage of the terms "groupie" and "jazz ho" for this very reason. I knew that there would be people out there who would take all of this a little too personally. Whatever she was, or whatever her motivation, let's all just agree on the fact that her efforts were appreciated within the jazz community. If those efforts translated to furtherance of the music, then we're all better off for them.

So what's the 'complete picture' regarding her abandonment of her kids? I don't think it was simply a case of 'see ya, I want to hang out with jazzers and smoke weed, be good for your father'. By your reckoning, dereliction of one's familial obligations connotes promiscuity. It's not about jazz fans 'worshipping' anybody. I can't recall anyone close to Monk or anyone else in that milieu even alluding to her having sexual liaisons with Monk or Bird or those she supported. I don't think it's wise to insinuate just because someone else's views on parenthood don't chime with yours. If you have anything that sheds more light on her motivations let's hear it. So far you've given us nothing.

First of all, I stated what I had heard. Secondly, you're taking this personally which might indicate that you know more. If that's the case, why don't you educate us instead of railing against what you think my views on the whole situation might be? In other words, if I've "given us nothing", make it your point to give us something. That might serve the board and general interest better than another round of personal attacks.

But what did you hear? All you stated were the vaguest of opinions from person or persons unknown. I may as well say 'people I know think the earth is flat'. You carefully avoided anything factual, you didn't even comment on whether you believed that what 'people you know' said about her was based on firsthand information. To say you have nothing isn't a personal attack, it's a mere statement of fact. You made the claim, via these 'people you know'. Have the courtesy to at least be clear as to what 'you' think. If you have to rely on hearsay then it's pointless me taking this any further. Why would I take personally an opinion that cannot even reliably be said to come from you? I'm all for enlightenment and find this board to be a rich source of knowledge and informed opinion on all manner of things jazz and non-jazz. If you've got anything on this topic that adds to that then I'm all ears, all I've got so far is that you are a parent that wouldn't abandon his kids and you know people who think that Nica was a tart. Don't waste my time and I won't waste yours.

[JETman]

You don't know anything about her.

I wasn't there, no. But this is certainly a unique twist on fandom -- jazz fans worshipping another jazz fan. Yes, I realize that we all have our own take on worshipping those who have given a lot to further the music -- the Chris Albertson's, the Dan Morgenstern's, the Michael Cuscuna's, etc. But this may border on being quite the reach for those who refuse to acknowledge the complete picture. I avoided usage of the terms "groupie" and "jazz ho" for this very reason. I knew that there would be people out there who would take all of this a little too personally. Whatever she was, or whatever her motivation, let's all just agree on the fact that her efforts were appreciated within the jazz community. If those efforts translated to furtherance of the music, then we're all better off for them.

So what's the 'complete picture' regarding her abandonment of her kids? I don't think it was simply a case of 'see ya, I want to hang out with jazzers and smoke weed, be good for your father'. By your reckoning, dereliction of one's familial obligations connotes promiscuity. It's not about jazz fans 'worshipping' anybody. I can't recall anyone close to Monk or anyone else in that milieu even alluding to her having sexual liaisons with Monk or Bird or those she supported. I don't think it's wise to insinuate just because someone else's views on parenthood don't chime with yours. If you have anything that sheds more light on her motivations let's hear it. So far you've given us nothing.

First of all, I stated what I had heard. Secondly, you're taking this personally which might indicate that you know more. If that's the case, why don't you educate us instead of railing against what you think my views on the whole situation might be? In other words, if I've "given us nothing", make it your point to give us something. That might serve the board and general interest better than another round of personal attacks.

But what did you hear? All you stated were the vaguest of opinions from person or persons unknown. I may as well say 'people I know think the earth is flat'. You carefully avoided anything factual, you didn't even comment on whether you believed that what 'people you know' said about her was based on firsthand information. To say you have nothing isn't a personal attack, it's a mere statement of fact. You made the claim, via these 'people you know'. Have the courtesy to at least be clear as to what 'you' think. If you have to rely on hearsay then it's pointless me taking this any further. Why would I take personally an opinion that cannot even reliably be said to come from you? I'm all for enlightenment and find this board to be a rich source of knowledge and informed opinion on all manner of things jazz and non-jazz. If you've got anything on this topic that adds to that then I'm all ears, all I've got so far is that you are a parent that wouldn't abandon his kids and you know people who think that Nica was a tart. Don't waste my time and I won't waste yours.

You're just repeating yourself. Like you've already stated, I've got nothing. Why do the why's, where's and from who's matter if that's the case? What are you trying to achieve by this? If you want me to hang my head in shame, I'm afraid you're out of luck. If you want to turn this into a constructive resource, enlighten us.

[imeanyou]

You don't know anything about her.

I wasn't there, no. But this is certainly a unique twist on fandom -- jazz fans worshipping another jazz fan. Yes, I realize that we all have our own take on worshipping those who have given a lot to further the music -- the Chris Albertson's, the Dan Morgenstern's, the Michael Cuscuna's, etc. But this may border on being quite the reach for those who refuse to acknowledge the complete picture. I avoided usage of the terms "groupie" and "jazz ho" for this very reason. I knew that there would be people out there who would take all of this a little too personally. Whatever she was, or whatever her motivation, let's all just agree on the fact that her efforts were appreciated within the jazz community. If those efforts translated to furtherance of the music, then we're all better off for them.

So what's the 'complete picture' regarding her abandonment of her kids? I don't think it was simply a case of 'see ya, I want to hang out with jazzers and smoke weed, be good for your father'. By your reckoning, dereliction of one's familial obligations connotes promiscuity. It's not about jazz fans 'worshipping' anybody. I can't recall anyone close to Monk or anyone else in that milieu even alluding to her having sexual liaisons with Monk or Bird or those she supported. I don't think it's wise to insinuate just because someone else's views on parenthood don't chime with yours. If you have anything that sheds more light on her motivations let's hear it. So far you've given us nothing.

First of all, I stated what I had heard. Secondly, you're taking this personally which might indicate that you know more. If that's the case, why don't you educate us instead of railing against what you think my views on the whole situation might be? In other words, if I've "given us nothing", make it your point to give us something. That might serve the board and general interest better than another round of personal attacks.

But what did you hear? All you stated were the vaguest of opinions from person or persons unknown. I may as well say 'people I know think the earth is flat'. You carefully avoided anything factual, you didn't even comment on whether you believed that what 'people you know' said about her was based on firsthand information. To say you have nothing isn't a personal attack, it's a mere statement of fact. You made the claim, via these 'people you know'. Have the courtesy to at least be clear as to what 'you' think. If you have to rely on hearsay then it's pointless me taking this any further. Why would I take personally an opinion that cannot even reliably be said to come from you? I'm all for enlightenment and find this board to be a rich source of knowledge and informed opinion on all manner of things jazz and non-jazz. If you've got anything on this topic that adds to that then I'm all ears, all I've got so far is that you are a parent that wouldn't abandon his kids and you know people who think that Nica was a tart. Don't waste my time and I won't waste yours. You're just repeating yourself. Like you've already stated, I've got nothing. Why do the why's, where's and from who's matter if that's the case? What are you trying to achieve by this? If you want me to hang my head in shame, I'm afraid you're out of luck. If you want to turn this into a constructive resource, enlighten us.

I'm not interested in 'shaming' anyone. You threw out the 'groupie' angle under the guise of observations from 'people you know'. I'm curious to know more because they seem at odds with what I've read and heard about Nica, I'm not here to defend her reputation and I'm not claiming any kind of privileged 'insider' wisdom. You have an opportunity to share what you know but have tried to turn it around into some non-existent personal attack. How is wrapping up your feelings about her competence as a mother in an oblique attack on her sexual morality any kind of constructive contribution? We've established you have nothing to substantiate what you heard from other sources. Smells like time-wasting to me, thanks for playing.

[John Litweiler]

Is Nica's daughter still around - the daughter who was arrested for riding in a car w/the Jazz Messengers? Did she ever telol her story?

[flat5]

Some info on Nica. I'll take what I can get.

http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/article4ced.html?articleid=435