The blue Note trumpeters

[Milestones]

This thread will focus on several artists.

Trumpeters always seemed under-represented on Blue Note it its glory years--and I'm thinking particularly of the 1960s. There are some great ones. Certainly Lee Morgan's discography is huge, and I'd currently place him first; but I've been exploring his stuff in some depth over the last couple of years. Freddie Hubbard was clearly a star, though his most enduring contributions seemed to come as a sideman. There are exceptions, of course, such as "Breaking Point"--one of the great albums of the decade (IMO).

The late Donald Byrd is woefully under-represented in my collection, but I will be changing that. His discography is also huge, and I'm sure there are some real classics.

One could make a case for Blue Mitchell also--several records as leader, plus more as part of Horace Silver's quintet.

Offhand, I can't think of a fifth trumpeter who recorded frequently for BN during this period.

How would you rate the trumpeters? What are favorite records and pieces?

[BillF]

[Milestones]

Fair enough, but I did say the 1960s.

[robertoart]

[JSngry]

Woody Shaw started popping up more often as the decade progressed.

[Milestones]

I suppose we should add Kenny Dorham--some dates as leader, plus appearances with Joe Henderson and Andrew Hill.

[JSngry]

Yes! Any list w/o KD is no list at all afaic.

(that's the second time in less than 24 hours I've used that device, so...shoot me before/if I use it again, ok?)

And let it be said that although Johnny Coles made only one leader date for BN, it was a true gem.

[Milestones]

And what is "afaic"?

[John Litweiler]

Don Cherry

and Ornette Coleman

[jlhoots]

And what is "afaic"?

"as far as I'm concerned"

[king ubu]

I know we're talking sixties here, but another forgotten one who recorded a few gems for Blue Note a few years before that is Thad Jones!

My own favourite is Mogie.

KD of course ... but I somehow tend to prefer him more before he made the five albums with Henderson.

The Coles album a gem ... I don't really know. I like it, warts (Wright) and all, but I think Coles' "The Warm Sound" is his one true gem!

[JSngry]

Little Johnny C has proven over the years to be one of those albums where you either love it or just don't see what the fuss is about. Much like Coles in general, I suppose.

Back to Woody Shaw, let's not forget that the 1965 sessions that were finally issued on Muse as In The Beginning were purportedly recorded as a demo to shop to Blue Note..Shaw was doing the "start as sideman then maybe get a leader date" route on the label for sure, maybe if Lion has stayed on, then yes, but no, and did not, and besides, that type of jazz was losing favor at the label by the time the 70s dawned any way. But I definitely get a sense that that vortex was beginning to swirl in 1965-ish.

[Mark Stryker]

As it happens I just did a deep dive into all of Donald Byrd's discography for a long piece in my book. I don't want to go into too much detail at this point but I can offer a few quick observations. He signed with Blue Note at the end of 1958 and the early years of his tenure overlap with his peak as a bandleader and as a trumpeter, though starting sometime in 1960 you start to hear chinks in what had been a remarkable sound and technique, and his chops decline from this point forward. The sound is thinner by 63 and really thin by 65-68.

Best overall album: "Royal Flush" (1961) with the quintet with Pepper Adams, Herbie Hancock in only his 2nd record date and the first appearance on BN of Butch Warren Billy HIggins together. Byrd's best representation as a composer and Hancock pushes the music out of the 50s and into the 60. Some folks like the follow up "Free Form" from a few months later in '61 which has the same band, with Wayne Shorter in for Adams -- but I like the balance on "Royal Flush."

Best overall pre-Hancock record: "Byrd in Hand" (1959) sextet with Pepper, Charlie Rouse, Walter Davis, Sam Jones, Art Taylor. Quintessential hard bop and Byrd's sound and fluency are incredible.

The other Byrd LPs from this period ("Off to the Races," "Fuego," "Byrd in Flight," the two volumes of "At the Half Note Cafe," "The Cat Walk," "Chant") all have different reasons to recommend them. I would just note a couple of things aimed at this board: Hank Mobley plays his ass off on "Byrd in Flight" (which comes from the same period as "Soul Station/Roll Cal/Workout") And if you want to hear some really beautiful trumpet playing listen to "When Your Love is Gone" on "Off to the Races."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWgBqOKtUi8

Edited April 6, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[king ubu]

Little Johnny C has proven over the years to be one of those albums where you either love it or just don't see what the fuss is about. Much like Coles in general, I suppose.

Don't get me wrong, I'm firmly in the love camp! I just think that "Warm Sound" is a true marvel and overlooked gem, while "Little Johnny C" is a good but not great album (in the same bag as Blue Mitchell's pretty similar BN debut, btw).

[paul secor]

Bill Dixon was on BN in the 60s.

Edited April 6, 2013 by paul secor

[Chuck Nessa]

Which trumpeters of the post bop era are under represented on BN in the '60s, considering the stylistic confines of NYC and the time?

They had Lee, Freddie and Donald under contract - Dang!

[Milestones]

So Byrd's chops declined that early in his career? I know that "A New Perspective" comes after his presumed peak, but I have to say that his solo on "Cristo Redentor" is as memorable and moving a trumpet solo as I have ever heard.

[Mark Stryker]

Which trumpeters of the post bop era are under represented on BN in the '60s, considering the stylistic confines of NYC and the time?

They had Lee, Freddie and Donald under contract - Dang!

Interesting question. Off the top:

Booker Little (died in 61)

Marcus Belgrave (NY 59-61, then back with Ray Charles, settled in Detroit in '63)

Thad Jones (GREAT records in the '50s but nothing as leader in in the '60s, though cameos here and there and some midsize ensemble writing)

Don Ellis

Nat Adderley

A young Randy Brecker

Ted Curson

Art Farmer

Dizzy -- is he on any Blue Note record?

Joe Newman

A young Jimmy Owens

Richard Williams

Lonnie Hillyer

Alan Shorter

Charles Tolliver (nothing as a leader)

Tommy Turrentine

Edited April 6, 2013 by Mark Stryker

[king ubu]

Richard Williams is on Booker Ervins's great "The In Between" - but he's very under-recorded in my book.

Love his playing with Lateef (Live at Pep's) and with the Jones/Lewis Orchestra!

[Mark Stryker]

So Byrd's chops declined that early in his career? I know that "A New Perspective" comes after his presumed peak, but I have to say that his solo on "Cristo Redentor" is as memorable and moving a trumpet solo as I have ever heard.

Well, the decline is slow at first and there are definitely moments -- and "Cristo Redentor" is one of them -- where he's still very focused. I agree with you about this solo -- very soulful. It's interesting in that he really doesn't improvise. The power comes from sticking very close to the melody within the context of the choir and Herbie's bluesy obbligato. One other thing I think is interesting: Byrd's style changed in these years as he was more influenced by Miles, and, while it's only speculation, I think it's possible that his slowly faltering chops helped push him into a less virtuoso style.

[JSngry]

The "conventional wisdom" is that Byrd's chops came down from their peak as he devoted more time to non-playing activities (education, law, etc.). In other words, it was more rust than an actual physical faltering setting in. Anything to counter that?

[mjzee]

I think of Little Johnny C as a Duke Pearson record.

Tommy Turrentine was really good on Sonny Clark's Leapin' and Lopin'.

[Chuck Nessa]

I think of Little Johnny C as a Duke Pearson record.

Tommy Turrentine was really good on Sonny Clark's Leapin' and Lopin'.

TT is fine on all of the BN dates he's on. Thanks for thinking of him.

[Guy Berger]

Dizzy Reece, Charles Tolliver, Alan Shorter

[Milestones]

Speaking of Miles and Byrd similarities...I have only heard snippets of "Electric Byrd," but these tunes are eerie in their similarity to the tracks on "Bitches Brew."