Increasing speed of records half a tone

[jeffcrom]

The Magnificent One asked me if I had anything to contribute to this thread. Not much, but:

My mid-50s copy of Fats' first US LP, Rock and Rollin' with Fats Domino, has "The Fat Man" playing in F sharp, which is kind of ridiculous. Fats played it in F, I'm sure.

Look at MG's original post - the difference in the percentages between half steps doesn't show up until the third decimal point. Those differences are far too small for us to hear.

Before I put on the Fats LP, I had a Gary Burton LP on the turntable. The first tune was "Green Dolphin Street" in E flat. When I put the speed control on 45, it put the tune in A flat (more or less). The instruments sounded funny, off course, but the pitch relationships were just fine - all of Burton's keys were perfectly in tune with each other.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The Magnificent One asked me if I had anything to contribute to this thread. Not much, but:

My mid-50s copy of Fats' first US LP, Rock and Rollin' with Fats Domino, has "The Fat Man" playing in F sharp, which is kind of ridiculous. Fats played it in F, I'm sure.

Look at MG's original post - the difference in the percentages between half steps doesn't show up until the third decimal point. Those differences are far too small for us to hear.

That's what I wanted to know - thanks Jeff.

So, the frequency of a particular note is more like a small range than an exact number, since we can't tell the difference.

MG

[mjzee]

Other records that were sped up for 45 release:

I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown

Gimme Some Lovin' - Spencer Davis (Stevie Winwood)

Do you know if there are releases of those recordings at the correct speed?

MG

I spoke too soon - it was indeed "Papa," not "I Got You," that was sped up.

As for Gimme Some Lovin', see this Wikipedia entry: Wikipedia. MG, you may not have known of it because you're probably familiar with the version issued in the UK.

[JSngry]

Now, I would saying lowering something by that same amount is much more noticeable. It makes the vocal sound lower/flabbier, and it reduces the tempo more noticeably. Technically, it varies the speed by the same amount as the other direction, but in terms of our perception, we hear it more. That is subjective but it has been my experience.

(105 is 5% more than 100, but 100 is only 4.7619 less than 105.) So you don't slow down as much as you speed up.

Let x = the amount of pitch alteration applied to a single pitch

Let 100 = original pitch

100 + .x(100) = 105

x = 0.05

therefore 105 - x(100) = 100

x again = 0.05

What you're suggesting is that:

100 + .x(100) = 105 - x(100)

therefore 100 = 105, which, no, false.

[JSngry]

But what is not answered here is the matter of shifting relative interior pitch, i.e. the physics of microtonality. I'm sure that at some point something really "off" can be made to happen, but what/where that point is, I don't know, as well as the point between "audible" vs. "subliminal" impact.

I can tell you that you can get a lot of people exited just by tuning a piano to natural temperament vs. even, so that's as good a place as any to start the pondering, if there will indeed be any.

If you want a real answer to this from members here, 7/4 is definitely your guy. Rod might have come good input as well.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Other records that were sped up for 45 release:

I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown

Gimme Some Lovin' - Spencer Davis (Stevie Winwood)

Do you know if there are releases of those recordings at the correct speed?

MG

I spoke too soon - it was indeed "Papa," not "I Got You," that was sped up.

As for Gimme Some Lovin', see this Wikipedia entry: Wikipedia. MG, you may not have known of it because you're probably familiar with the version issued in the UK.

Well, I did buy 'Gimme some lovin'' when it came out. And I do have it on this CD:

But I don't play various artists compilations much. And I prefer Funk Inc's version of the tune. I have another version, too, but can't recall who did it. So I wouldn't say I'm familiar with the Spencer Davis version. The Wiki article is interesting. I THINK that the CD I have presents the original Fontana release, but I didn't keep the 45 for many months back in the day, so I really can't be sure.

Funny that the Wiki article seems to avoid referring to black versions of the song.

MG

[king ubu]

The mathematical side really doesn't matter ... it's the feel and there a half step can make a big difference.

There's plenty of boots running at ridiculous speeds. My favourite example is always the Miles Amsterdam concert with Barney, Klook et.al., where Klook sounds extremely weird on the released versions, while on the fixed one - pitch on the boots is approximately 47cents flat - sounds much, much better! The Miles in Boxton 1955 runs at wrong speed, too ... there's Mingus material, there's even a mid 90s Joey DeFrancesco set which Swiss Radio recorded in great fidelity but broadcast in wrong speed ... don't ask me how that can happen in these digital times, but happen it does.

So I'd not say these differences aren't perceptible. They are, and sometimes big time so, if things certainly fall into the place they're supposed to be!