Anyone else here a golfer?

[Scott Dolan]

Oops, I had my gearing explanation kinda backwards:

Q: Do metal woods have gear effect?

A: Gear effect is the rotation of the head around it's centre of gravity, which imparts corrective spin to the ball. You can experience it with a metal club, but the effect is less than that of a persimmon wood. Since the centre of gravity is closer to the face there is less gear effect with a metal wood.

The centre of gravity on a persimmon head is deeper in the head.

This deeper centre of gravity creates more gear effect and you are better able to work the ball.

This also allows for greater correction on a mis-hit shot with a persimmon driver.

[Tim McG]

Scott,

Are you collecting persimmon woods or are you planning to play golf with them? Unless you hit them right on the screws they are very hard to control.

I have held onto Mrs. GoodSpeak's old set of persimmon woods hoping to sell them on e-bay sometime, but they aren't as good looking as the ones you posted.

No, I play with them. I've been using a Persimmon driver, 3 and 4 wood for over a year now. I have really grown to dislike metal clubs of any kind. The new 460CC oil can drivers are far harder to control and can spray balls in almost any direction at any time. By the time I'm done, even my irons will be replaced with Persimmon. Well, except for 9-PW. Louisville doesn't make wood replacements for those clubs.

My experience has been exactly opposite of what you're saying. I've studied up on them and most experts also agree that smaller Persimmon heads give you greater control. One of the reasons is because of what is referred to as "gearing". It allows the ball to self-correct more in flight and move back towards the intended target. And I've noticed it quite clearly since I got my dad's old Persimmon driver last year. Even my buddy remarked how it tends to move back towards the target more. What is given up with Persimmon clubs is distance because they are heavier which diminishes club head speed. But, I'll give up 10-20 yds to keep it in the fairway more.

Besides, a nice *thwack!* beats a wimpy little *tink* any day of the week, IMO.

I've got some older clubs that Wynton and I are going to try our hand at restoring. Have you considered trying that with your wife's old clubs? Some of those fully restored Persimmon sets are fetching impressive dollar amounts on Ebay.

Well, I started on persimmon woods and couldn't hit a straight ball to save my life. Once I got into metal woods [the smaller heads not the over sized clubs of today] back in the early 80s my game was much improved and I hit the ball farther. Now, I play those over sized metal woods and my ball has a far straighter flight [i cut everything nowadays due to injuries, so I draw the ball more often than not] and I have become more accurate from the fairway. A mis-hit ball doesn't "punish" me like it did with persimmon woods. I can hit an off-center shot and sill be OK because, in my experience, the metal woods tend to be more forgiving.

To each his own, but I predict as your game improves, you'll want to take a look at the metal woods.

Edited April 3, 2013 by GoodSpeak

[Scott Dolan]

Nah, I used metal woods for three years. It's not so much that I don't like them, just that I absolutely love wood.

My Firesteel is somewhat smaller than the newest drivers at 300cc, so it's a slightly better fit.

I don't know why I took to Persimmon the way I did, but there's no looking back now. I don't play in tournaments, and I never actually keep score. The sound and feel of the wood clubs wil never be replicated in metal.

[Tim McG]

I feel the same way about baseball bats: Wood always sounds better than metal

[Scott Dolan]

YES!!!

Same exact thing, Goodz!

I actually thought about our earlier conversation on the way home just now and thought the more apt description of me would be "golf enthusiast".

Right? Think about it. It's like a muscle car enthusiast. They can buy a modern day muscle car that is lightweight, safer, and in most cases has more HP than the older stuff. But, to them the fiberglass and high tech nonsense of modern day muscle cars simply cannot compare with the steel and thunder of the old school stuff. Now, does the brand new Dodge Challenger whip the old Challenger in almost every performance category?

Yep.

But, to the true muscle car enthusiast does it matter?

Not one bit.

There's a "total package" involved in the old steel, iron block stompers. And the new fiberglass and aluminum block just seem to be "missing" something.

Make sense?

Edited April 3, 2013 by Scott Dolan

[Scott Dolan]

BTW, Tim. Serious question: you started our swinging Persimmon clubs, but struggled with them. Then as your game improved you started going with metal "woods".

Now, I started out swinging metal "woods", which I struggled with. After my game improved, I started swinging Persimmons.

How much of that has shaped both of our opinions? Quite a bit, I'd wager.

Bonus question: have you spent any serious amount of time swinging Persimmon clubs since your game improved?

The reason I ask is because Persimmon clubs actually improved my accuracy (and let's keep in mind you've got well over 25 years experience on me in this game). I'd have to think if you swung a Persimmon at this point in your game, you'd be pleasantly surprised with the outcome. They are far more forgiving than you remember, IMO. I'd think you'd absolutely kill with one of them.

What I'm driving at here (see what I did there?), is that we all started out at some point. And we all struggled. How much did those struggles inform our opinion? And yes, that question could easily be turned around on me, I understand. But, I carry both a Persimmon and a Titanium driver in my bag. So, I'm still constantly evaluating both.

Tim, Persimmon is winning...

Edited April 3, 2013 by Scott Dolan

[Scott Dolan]

Timely story from our trip to the range yesterday.

Our golfing partner, Scott, met us out there yesterday. Now, as a brief background Scott has actually played golf longer than Wynton and I have, but a couple of years ago he was struggling with it so much that he actually came very close to simply giving up the game. He couldn't keep a club for more than a couple of weeks before it was completely destroyed/dented/cracked, and after spending $200 on a driver only to decimated it a few weeks later he decided to not even bother using a driver anymore.

Well, last year we all started getting quite good as he and I both made substantial mechanical changes to our swings. So about a month ago he ended up buying a driver from a co-worker and he brought it with him yesterday. He was grumbling and griping about how much he hated it, and after seeing him take a few hacks with it I could see why (Wynton and I swung it quite a bit as well and actually liked it a lot). The head on it is 380cc, so I gave him my Firesteel (300cc) to see if the smaller club face helped. It did a little. He had always been afraid to swing any of my drivers for fear that he'd tear them up. But now he at least trusts himself enough.

After that I broke out my Persimmon driver (Mr. Simmons, I call him) and showed Scott this thing I do at address that we now refer to as the Dolan Prayer. So he tried it, swung Mr. Simmons, and continued to for the next ten minutes. It was love at first swing. He was absolutely destroying the ball. 250+ every swing, and right down the middle.

He's going to play with some co-workers this weekend and asked if he could borrow Mr. Simmons for the day.

Watch out ebay!!

[Tim McG]

YES!!!

Same exact thing, Goodz!

I actually thought about our earlier conversation on the way home just now and thought the more apt description of me would be "golf enthusiast".

Right? Think about it. It's like a muscle car enthusiast. They can buy a modern day muscle car that is lightweight, safer, and in most cases has more HP than the older stuff. But, to them the fiberglass and high tech nonsense of modern day muscle cars simply cannot compare with the steel and thunder of the old school stuff. Now, does the brand new Dodge Challenger whip the old Challenger in almost every performance category?

Yep.

But, to the true muscle car enthusiast does it matter?

Not one bit.

There's a "total package" involved in the old steel, iron block stompers. And the new fiberglass and aluminum block just seem to be "missing" something.

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense.

[Tim McG]

BTW, Tim. Serious question: you started our swinging Persimmon clubs, but struggled with them. Then as your game improved you started going with metal "woods".

Now, I started out swinging metal "woods", which I struggled with. After my game improved, I started swinging Persimmons.

How much of that has shaped both of our opinions? Quite a bit, I'd wager.

Bonus question: have you spent any serious amount of time swinging Persimmon clubs since your game improved?

The reason I ask is because Persimmon clubs actually improved my accuracy (and let's keep in mind you've got well over 25 years experience on me in this game). I'd have to think if you swung a Persimmon at this point in your game, you'd be pleasantly surprised with the outcome. They are far more forgiving than you remember, IMO. I'd think you'd absolutely kill with one of them.

What I'm driving at here (see what I did there?), is that we all started out at some point. And we all struggled. How much did those struggles inform our opinion? And yes, that question could easily be turned around on me, I understand. But, I carry both a Persimmon and a Titanium driver in my bag. So, I'm still constantly evaluating both.

Tim, Persimmon is winning...

My problem is and was that I often don't hit the ball square or I hit it off center. The metal woods helped my game in that way and helped boost my confidence out on the course.I suppose, theoretically, I could hit a persimmon wood better today but the technology just isn't there.

For example, I hit a R-7 Taylormade driver . It is designed to prevent slicing which is my biggest problem since I cut the ball [an out side in swing]. It gives me a draw which in turn keeps me in the fairway. I have lost a lot of distance because of my cutting swing, but at least I'm in the short grass most of the time.

Edited April 4, 2013 by GoodSpeak

[Scott Dolan]

That's cool, brother.

Hey, people have to go with what works. To do otherwise would simply make no sense.

I've swung an R-9. Very nice club.

BTW, just a theory of mine: it seems to me the smaller the club head, the greater the level of concentration. At least that's what I think is the case for me. Kind of hard to explain beyond that general statement, but even going back to my first cheapo set of clubs the one club I'd sometimes over-rely on was my 7 wood. I could consistently smack that puppy 200 yds. (I could barely hit my driver any longer than that back then) And usually just as nice and straight as it could be designed. But my driver/3W/5W? Dicey. Spray and pray.

Read recently that Tiger still works out with a custom built Persimmon. As do a few others on the Tour.

[Tim McG]

I don't doubt Tiger and others workout with a persimmon driver. I figure the weight alone helps with strength conditioning as well as accuracy since the sweet spot is much smaller. Great idea if you ask me.

Kinda like going to the heavy bag or swinging a bat with a donut on it.

That was my principle complaint about light weight metal drivers with a fiberglass shaft; to dang light. I had a tendency to over swing. So my 3W and 5W have a steel shaft [Callaway Steelhead] and are pretty heavy in comparison to my R-7. The good news is it slowed me down a bit and I make better contact with the ball.

Edited April 4, 2013 by GoodSpeak

[Scott Dolan]

Good god, Tim...

It seems like the lighter the worse, doesn't it? At least to a certain degree.

My buddy that gave me my Firesteel had a custom made Titanium set. The difference in weight between the Firesteel and his driver was absurd. The Firesteel, IMO, retains the "proper" amount of weight. His Titanium driver felt like a piece of paper. And with that super bendy graphite shaft.

There's a happy medium out there somewhere, but the super lightweight stuff just feels...

...thin? Lifeless?

Hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying.

The R-9 I swung seemed to have the "right" amount of heft to it. I'm assuming your R-7 does as well.

[Tim McG]

Good god, Tim...

It seems like the lighter the worse, doesn't it? At least to a certain degree.

My buddy that gave me my Firesteel had a custom made Titanium set. The difference in weight between the Firesteel and his driver was absurd. The Firesteel, IMO, retains the "proper" amount of weight. His Titanium driver felt like a piece of paper. And with that super bendy graphite shaft.

There's a happy medium out there somewhere, but the super lightweight stuff just feels...

...thin? Lifeless?

Hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying.

The R-9 I swung seemed to have the "right" amount of heft to it. I'm assuming your R-7 does as well.

Well, it took some getting used to, but the R-7 has been a good driver for me.

All my clubs have a steel shaft except this one.

My irons [King Cobra] have a goodly amount of bounce and heel weight. I have been very happy with these clubs.

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, I definitely prefer steel shafts as well.

I can live with graphite shafts, but I prefer the stiffest ones. The super flexible ones make it feel like you're swinging a garden hose.

[Tim McG]

Regular for me.

I tried the stiff shaft with a Callaway driver, but it felt like I was swinging a broom stick.

Luckily, I used it as a trade-in for my R-7.

Edited April 5, 2013 by GoodSpeak

[Jazzmoose]

Only when there are giant ceramic dinosaurs or tikis on the golf course.

I never could figure out which club to use on the hole with the windmill...

[Scott Dolan]

Regular for me.

I tried the stiff shaft with a Callaway driver, but it felt like I was swinging a broom stick.

Luckily, I used it as a trade-in for my R-7.

Agreed. Regular is just fine. Likely my preference as well.

Only when there are giant ceramic dinosaurs or tikis on the golf course.

I never could figure out which club to use on the hole with the windmill...

Try using your rescue club on that one.

[Scott Dolan]

He's here:

[Tim McG]

Awesome looking putter, Scott!

Let us know how it plays for you.

[Scott Dolan]

Will do, brother.

The thing weighs almost as much as my first car!