Grant Green

[CJ Shearn]

. The most recent thread, I recall someone saying (I don't necessarily agree) that Grant was lazy, that he never pushed himself to widen his vocabulary.

I was the one who said that. Maybe I went a little far, but it was out of admiration for his talent---and frustration that after a certain point he never seemed to care to grow (beyond the single-string thing, for one thing). Great sound, swing, and lyricism though---more than most people will achieve.

Thanks fasstrack. Yeah, I listen to him when I wanna hear something in the pocket, and he did rely on licks, but he added so much in the area he excelled at.

[Larry Kart]

Here is some comment on Grant Green.

"Grant Green played some of the most beautiful and moving guitar music ever committed to vinyl".

Me.

[Brad]

This is my favorite:

Nigeria 1962. Guitarist Grant Green performs with Sonny Clark (piano), Sam Jones (bass) and Art Blakey (drums).

ARTISTS

Grant Green (guitar); Sonny Clark (piano); Sam Jones (bass); Art Blakey (drums) TRACKS

1. Airegin

2. It Ain't Necessarily So

3. I Concentrate On You

4. The Things We Did Last Summer

5. The Song Is You

This is also my favorite Grant Green album.

This is defiinitely superb and It Ain't Necessarily So is one of my favorite tracks period.

I'm not a big fan of his later period funk period but most of his BN material is priceless.

[Big Beat Steve]

I found it in the bins at Musikhaus Lerche in Stuttgart about 10 years ago, and wanted to buy it. But when I went to the counter for them to fish the actual CD out from behind the counter, they couldn't find the disc! Only copy I've ever seen anywhere.

Ha, so you sneaked into my home shopping turf!!

Must have been more than 10 years ago or you caught them at the tail end of their existence. Lerche went into receivership in June 2003 and closed down their shops for good in January 2004.

Not surprising they could not find that CD you wanted, though.

I remember running into a similar problem like yours in their final years. Wanted to buy the Nocturne box from Fresh Sound but the booklet was missing. They DID manage to dig out another copy from their still unpacked shipments but only after a long (and insistent on my part ) search ...

For decades Lerche had been a fantastic record store, particularly for niche markets such as jazz and blues as well as reissues and imports of all sorts (and I'd rather not calculate the kind of money I left there all the way from c. 1975 to 1995 and even thereafter), but things had been going downhill for quite a few years before their closure. Steadily dwindling stocks, haphazard selection of what they carried or did not carry and would not get back in stock ever, less and less knowledgeable staff in the record/CD dept., etc. etc. The usual story (but still a shame) ...

End of OT ...

[Aggie87]

I enjoyed reading that, Steve. I was a regular at both Lerche locations on the Konigstrasse in Stuttgart, and World of Music, from Jan 1999 through November 2003, when I lived there. I liked the jazz selection there, and WoM's as well. I liked WoM better for their regular rock/pop selection though.

And there was one small music store near Christophstrasse that I used to go in as well, called Einklang - they had a nice jazz selection and some very good deals. Plus zweitausendeins. I miss all of those stores! Even MediaMarkt had some good deals occasionally.

For used cds & vinyl, I also used to visit Vinyl West, where I met fellow board member Sidewinder once (good guy too, with far better taste in music than me). And another used store called Second Hand Records. I don't know if either are still there though.

[Big Beat Steve]

Ah, so your stay there explains that VfB avatar you used to have ...

WoM is not worth a visit for niche music fans anymore. Zweitausendeins is fine from time to time, including for music books.

Einklang has select items but prices .... whew ...

The Vinyl West shop closed not long after Lerche too. Tom only does internet sales and auctions anymore. (BTW, we may well have unknowingly bumped into each other at Vinyl West. I used to buy a lot there in the early 2000s.)

Second Hand Records took over the less collectible Vinyl West stocks and sold them off through their special offer bins over the years. Some mighty good finds to be made there for swing and mainstream fans (quite a few ended up in my racks ), but these days their special offer bins don't hold much of interest anymore. The regular sections hold some interesting stuff in the modern jazz (and of course rock) bins but the staff know what's collectible ... (if you know what I mean)

So much for an excursion into the "last shop standing" topic ...

BTW, getting back to the topic, I had taken a liking to GG's "The Latin Bit" when they happened to played it at Mole Jazz when I dropped in there in the late 90s. Never was able to find a VINYL copy at Vinyl West nor SHR in the ensuing years though, and finally had to settle for a CD when a run of BN reissues came up at the low Zweitausendeins prices locally ...

Edited April 2, 2013 by Big Beat Steve

[Aggie87]

I was a big VfB supporter for a time. I don't keep up with the Bundesliga as much anymore, but they were a fun team to support.

Sad to hear that Vinyl West closed (I think Sidewinder/Bob mentioned that to me on here a while back as well). Tom was a very knowledgeable guy to talk with, I enjoyed my chats with him. It's funny that you and I may have been in the store at the same time browsing.

Also getting back on topic - I spun The Complete Quartets with Sonny Clark earlier this evening, thanks to this thread. I've always loved that set - never had the original LPs, but it's an absolutely indispensable cd set for me.

[Milestones]

It's kind of interesting to see who was showing up on Grant Green's records. Besides Sonny Clark, you've got Elvin Jones (about 5 records) McCoy Tyner (twice), Joe Henderson (at least twice), Herbie Hancock, Larry Young, Bobby Hutcherson, and I could go on. Oddly, he didn't appear to record with trumpeters.

[Jim R]

It's kind of interesting to see who was showing up on Grant Green's records. Besides Sonny Clark, you've got Elvin Jones (about 5 records) McCoy Tyner (twice), Joe Henderson (at least twice), Herbie Hancock, Larry Young, Bobby Hutcherson, and I could go on.

? Not sure what your point is here.

Oddly, he didn't appear to record with trumpeters.

Even if you're just talking about Grant as a sideman, that's not correct. He recorded on sessions led by Lee Morgan and Donald Byrd. He had Johnny Coles and Blue Mitchell on his own sessions, and of course worked as a sideman on other sessions that included trumpeters.

[colinmce]

Perhaps he's making the point that while GG was a pretty straightforward, in the pocket player, he worked with some of the hottest, most searching musicians of the time. I love Green's playing, but his (I'm assuming) choice in sidemen certainly helps bump his sessions up a notch.

[Milestones]

Colinmce, you certainly brought out my implicit points!

Jim R, I should have remembered Lee Morgan's "Search for the New Land." Admittedly, there is a huge number of records in Green's discography I have not heard; nonetheless, he didn't seem to exactly favor trumpet. And that seems true in general--most guitarists like to blend with saxophone.

[sidewinder]

I was a big VfB supporter for a time. I don't keep up with the Bundesliga as much anymore, but they were a fun team to support.

Sad to hear that Vinyl West closed (I think Sidewinder/Bob mentioned that to me on here a while back as well). Tom was a very knowledgeable guy to talk with, I enjoyed my chats with him. It's funny that you and I may have been in the store at the same time browsing.

Also getting back on topic - I spun The Complete Quartets with Sonny Clark earlier this evening, thanks to this thread. I've always loved that set - never had the original LPs, but it's an absolutely indispensable cd set for me.

Tom's web-site still seems to be going strong, Erik. Great little store that was in Stuttgart. Cool customer clientele too..

https://vinyl-west.de/catalog/index.php?osCsid=72d2fd871f60157d9a0083ad5ba59f62

[robertoart]

It's kind of interesting to see who was showing up on Grant Green's records. Besides Sonny Clark, you've got Elvin Jones (about 5 records) McCoy Tyner (twice), Joe Henderson (at least twice), Herbie Hancock, Larry Young, Bobby Hutcherson, and I could go on. Oddly, he didn't appear to record with trumpeters.

If you really understand how Grant's lines and overall musical opus fit so perfectly into a modal harmonic world, the sessions with Tyner and Larry Young seem like a logical fit between were the music (Jazz) was going and was already - and the development of Grant Green as a guitar player. Idle Moments probably made that a certainty. Remember the Elvin Jones connection went back a few years, so obviously the two men kept in touch

And also, the Mosaic Larry Young booklet points out Green, Young and Jones were a working band when they could get together.

Grant's development between the Barbarian recordings and Idle Moment/Matador/Talkin About JC is pretty phenomenal by any musicians standards.

Seems like he made definitive post-bop statements with Sonny Clark, and then made equally definite modal recordings within two years later. He must have done a lot of thinking about his music during those times

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think there's something in that, but perhaps not what you think. Early in his career, GG said (can't remember which sleeve note it was) that he didn't listen to other guitarists but to sax players.

I don't think he was averse to trumpet players - in addition to those mentioned earlier, he was with Bill Hardman on Lou Donaldson's 'Musty Rusty'; Richard Williams on 'The way I feel'; Clark Terry on 'The grass is greener'; Tommy Turrentine on 'Blue John' and 'Natural soul'; Virgil Jones on 'Pereson to person'; Marcus Belgrave on 'The real thing'; Chuck Mangione on 'Hold on I'm comin''; Irvin Stokes on 'Man with a horn'; others, too, I expect, as I haven't looked through his entire discography.

Few guitarists apart from Grant Green recorded with a musical saw player in the band; does that mean they're averse to musical saw players? Well, maybe...

But GG would and could play with anyone.

MG

[robertoart]

I wish he made a quartet or small group Organ record with Blue Mitchell.

Also has there ever been much contemporary research into things like which Blue Note session configurations may have played some club dates, or was it specifically most of the great session personnel (apart from the famous working bands like The Messengers, Horace Silver etc), really came together and got to know each other during the few days of 'paid' rehearsal time Blue Note sprang for.

For instance, did Joe Henderson ever play gigs with Tyner and Jones maybe?

Grant with McCoy?

Edited April 3, 2013 by freelancer

[robertoart]

I think there's something in that, but perhaps not what you think. Early in his career, GG said (can't remember which sleeve note it was) that he didn't listen to other guitarists but to sax players.

I don't think he was averse to trumpet players - in addition to those mentioned earlier, he was with Bill Hardman on Lou Donaldson's 'Musty Rusty'; Richard Williams on 'The way I feel'; Clark Terry on 'The grass is greener'; Tommy Turrentine on 'Blue John' and 'Natural soul'; Virgil Jones on 'Pereson to person'; Marcus Belgrave on 'The real thing'; Chuck Mangione on 'Hold on I'm comin''; Irvin Stokes on 'Man with a horn'; others, too, I expect, as I haven't looked through his entire discography.

Few guitarists apart from Grant Green recorded with a musical saw player in the band; does that mean they're averse to musical saw players? Well, maybe...

But GG would and could play with anyone.

MG

Fats Theus - Black Out

....coming soon to an Audiophile Label near you

Edited April 3, 2013 by freelancer

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I wish he made a quartet or small group Organ record with Blue Mitchell.

Two quintet dates - 'Oh baby' and 'Steppin' out' - with Vick, Mitchell, Patton & Dixon spring to mind immediately

MG

[Niko]

@freelancer: some clues on live gigs can be found in the listings of Left Bank Concerts:

http://home.earthlink.net/~eskelin/leftbank.html

e.g.

McCOY TYNER, piano; JOE HENDERSON, tenor sax; JACK DEJOHNETTE, drums; HERBERT LEWIS, bass

HANK MOBLEY, tenor sax; McCOY TYNER, piano; JACK DEJOHNETTE, drums; EDDIE MARSHALL, bass

GRANT GREENE, guitar; HAROLD VICK, tenor sax; JOHN PATTON, organ; HUGH WALKER, drums

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Fats Theus - Black Out

....coming soon to an Audiophile Label near you

MG

[robertoart]

I wish he made a quartet or small group Organ record with Blue Mitchell.

Two quintet dates - 'Oh baby' and 'Steppin' out' - with Vick, Mitchell, Patton & Dixon spring to mind immediately

MG

How could I forget them.

I've got the Vangelder ear Oh Baby too.

Steppin Out was one of the last sessions in Grant's discography I got to hear.

Don't think I'll be finding an original vangelder of that anytime soon.

The Soul Brotherhood is one of my all time favourites as well.

[CJ Shearn]

Only if some tapes of DeJohnette with Patton surface...........

[Steve Reynolds]

how about the Shorter quartet or the Rivers, Hancock, Carter, Williams?

plus a few great bands with Freddie Hubbard and how about the Pepper Adams front line with Jimmy Heath?

[colinmce]

Yes, the Freddie Hubbard group with James Spaulding and Ronnie Matthews was described as a working group in the notes for one of the BNs ... Hub-Tones, maybe?

[Steve Reynolds]

8-22-65 JACKIE McLEAN, alto sax; CHARLES TOLLIVER, trumpet; LARRY WILLIS, piano; JACK DEJOHNETTE, drums; WILBUR LITTLE, bass - almost the same band as on the BN recording Jacknife with Little in place of Larry Ridley. Freddie Hubbard is in place of Tolliver on half the album as well.

9-5-65 WYNTON KELLY, piano; PAUL CHAMBERS, bass; JIMMY COBB, drums; WES MONTGOMERY, guitar - obviously the same as the legendary Live at the Half Note on verve

edited for reference to Jacknife instead of Action

Edited April 3, 2013 by Steve Reynolds

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I wish he made a quartet or small group Organ record with Blue Mitchell.

Two quintet dates - 'Oh baby' and 'Steppin' out' - with Vick, Mitchell, Patton & Dixon spring to mind immediately

MG

How could I forget them.

I've got the Vangelder ear Oh Baby too.

Steppin Out was one of the last sessions in Grant's discography I got to hear.

Don't think I'll be finding an original vangelder of that anytime soon.

The Soul Brotherhood is one of my all time favourites as well.

Yes, the Kynard session SHOULD have sprung to my mind as immediately as the 2 Blue Note jobs.

MG