The CD/Vinyl Debate Part 765

[jazzbo]

You're always so adversarial. Doesn't make for pleasant conversation or friend building. Just saying.

I haven't heard any of these HDTracks. Lots of opinions on them on Hoffman Board. I bet some of them sound awesome. HiRes can be great stuff.

[erwbol]

Free For All is awesome indeed, so is Out To Lunch.

[.:.impossible]

If you're happy with AAC and Apple Lossless, why not just be happy with AAC and Apple Lossless?

[A Lark Ascending]

[Scott Dolan]

You're always so adversarial. Doesn't make for pleasant conversation or friend building. Just saying.

I haven't heard any of these HDTracks. Lots of opinions on them on Hoffman Board. I bet some of them sound awesome. HiRes can be great stuff.

Dude, I put the smilie winkie there for a reason.

I was just messing with you. I didn't mean for it to come across as adversarial.

Sorry, brother. I still struggle with finding a way to properly convey my humor online.

If you're happy with AAC and Apple Lossless, why not just be happy with AAC and Apple Lossless?

What if HD is better?

Nothing wrong with finding out, right?

Free For All is awesome indeed, so is Out To Lunch.

Out To Lunch!

Think I'll use that as my test.

[erwbol]

Out To Lunch was remastered by Alan Yoshida and sounds fantastic. It's just a bit expensive at $17.98 or $24.98. I heard you talk about lost dynamic range earlier on. Now I'm no audiophile by any stretch of the imagination, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Scott Dolan]

Well, let me ask you this: I don't have the RVG edition. I have the 1987 pressing from BN. Digital transfer by Ron McMasters.

Will that be a fair comparison?

If not, I may have to move to something else.

My wife has the first two Norah Jones discs...

Edited March 25, 2013 by Scott Dolan

[erwbol]

I'm comparing a rip of the McMaster to the HD Tracks release now by connecting my Sennheisers to my iMac. There is no need to adjust volume levels going back and forth. The 24-bit FLACs are far more detailed. Like a curtain is lifted. Perhaps this is what is alluded to in those reviews on All About Jazz of Music Matters 45rpm LPs?

I don't think the Norah Jones FLACs would make as much of a difference as these sixties BN albums. Note that the 2013 releases like the Monks and Hutcherson are mastered by a different person, Bernie Grundman.

[Scott Dolan]

OK.

On your word, my lord.

Download commencing...

BTW, I'm going to run all of this through my iMac into my Headroom Micro Amp and Klipsch Image S4 buds.

Might plug my Sennheiser 595HD phones in for a second listen later...

[erwbol]

I hope you won't be disappointed. Do you own any of the XRCD24 discs from Audio Wave or the hybrid SACDs from APO?

Edited March 25, 2013 by erwbol

[Scott Dolan]

No.

[erwbol]

When I heard Hank Mobley's Soul Station XRCD24 mastered by Alan Yoshida it made me even more anxious and frustrated about my RVGs. Like the APO of Idle Moments. If that is how good these BN albums can sound...

These HD Tracks BN classics are worth it primarily because of the debacle of the RVG series imo. Finally a proper remaster. Even when reduced to 16-bit and burned to a CD they sound great.

[Scott Dolan]

The "debacle of the RVG series"?

Queue Jazzbo...

[jazzbo]

I'm out. My views are clear, I respect the views of others. No need to write about it further. I'm not a fan of arguing and so won't accept this invite.

[erwbol]

The "debacle of the RVG series"?

As I said, I'm content with the RVGs I kept, but most are not what they could or should have been, a lot are an outright failure imo. More must have been possible with current technology as the XRCD24s, APO SACDs and HD Tracks FLACs demonstrate.

[Scott Dolan]

Oy, got the download. Screwed up and got it in FLAC. Now I've got to download a player for it.

*sigh*

Me and my first world problems...

[Scott Dolan]

OK, been doing an A->B between my '87 in .wav and the HD download.

Definitely far less noise. Especially during Williams opening drums licks on the title track. The '87 mix had noticeable snare reverb on the opposite (left) channel. It is almost non-existent on the HD track. The overall mix on that track is lightyears better as well. Drums are much mor on par with the horns in this new mix. And Hutch's vibes were slightly toned down.

Davis sounds warmer and rounder. Not as flat and plastic-y as on the '87 mix.

Still not entirely sure it was worth the $25, but the differences are indeed there.

More later...

Edited March 26, 2013 by Scott Dolan

[Scott Dolan]

Hmmmm...a little more noise on Davis' solo on the title track as far as the HD version goes.

Were those Williams snares being rattled in the background? I'd have to think since they were more pronounced in the "cleaner" version.

Interesting...

[erwbol]

I searched around a bit on the Hoffman board (I don't post there) and it seems only the first six are actually by Alan Yoshida, Out To Lunch among them. Apparently he has requested they remove his name from the others. Also, it seems HD Tracks do not always provide the best customer experience. So, I'd proceed with caution in the event you're thinking of buying any more of their releases.

I'm glad Out To Lunch wasn't a disappointment to you. I also think the prices are too high. Also, on the Monks, you get none of the alternate takes from the RVGs. Misterioso (on the RVG Milt Jackson) is there, but Criss Cross isn't, not even the master take. Perhaps this reflects the track lists from the original LPs? Still, it looks like they are trying to maximize profit in an unpalatable manner.

[Quincy]

I have loved cds since I purchased my first player in 1986.

I also loved vinyl and didn't got rid of my records. Fortunately, I was buying records, cheaply, in the late 80's and early 90's when people were getting rid of theirs because they were outdated.

In recent years, I've been purchasing cds, cheaply, since most people think they're outdated.

This is the definition of winning.

I'm not getting into the war because I think they're both great in their owns ways. I love the way that the sound fills the air when I listen to a record and I enjoy the detailed sound and convenience of cds.

I'm a clone of your post oh magnificent cat. Several years ago if I wanted to investigate something like Van Morrison's mixed period of the '80s I was able to buy used LPs at garage sales that were mint for a few dollars. The drawback of this is that there's no skip button. (This is why I prefer the Peel Slowly Cd box to my VU Lps as there's at least 1 track on every damn album that I can't be bothered with nowadays). And as you point out, now CDs are practically being given away while new vinyl (not all, but some) can cost $30-$40 - fuck that. The vinyl that's been included in a couple of boxes that I've gotten had problems yet as for me it was a "throw in" so I couldn't be bothered to send it back, but the whole pressing inconsistency game is something I don't miss at all with vinyl. Yes, I kept my old vinyl, played my vinyl all this time and some of it sounds great, and some of it is worn out ass that only a nostalgic old fart could love. And yo Mr. Nostalgic Lounge Lizard Bond Villain Hat, my hearing is just fine thankyouverymuch, maybe even better yours unless you're 16 and can hear mosquito rings & I download and shit too.

[Scott Dolan]

I searched around a bit on the Hoffman board (I don't post there) and it seems only the first six are actually by Alan Yoshida, Out To Lunch among them. Apparently he has requested they remove his name from the others. Also, it seems HD Tracks do not always provide the best customer experience. So, I'd proceed with caution in the event you're thinking of buying any more of their releases.

I'm glad Out To Lunch wasn't a disappointment to you. I also think the prices are too high. Also, on the Monks, you get none of the alternate takes from the RVGs. Misterioso (on the RVG Milt Jackson) is there, but Criss Cross isn't, not even the master take. Perhaps this reflects the track lists from the original LPs? Still, it looks like they are trying to maximize profit in an unpalatable manner.

No, not disappointed at all. Just a little embarrassed for spending $24 for a slightly better version of what I already had. That's why I got out of my audiophile-in-training phase well over a decade ago. Spending huge amounts of money on barely noticeable incremental improvements just struck me as dopey. I suppose if it's your passion, but I figured out it wasn't mine.

But, this was worth the time and money. Always cool to at least try something new.

Though, I will admit I'm seriously considering picking up the HD of Beck's Sea Change. Possibly the best headphone album of all time.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Scott Dolan

[Dan Gould]

Though, I will admit I'm seriously considering picking up the HD of Beck's Sea Change. Possibly the best headphone album of all time.

You would be mistaken. Best headphone album of all time is this:

Edited March 27, 2013 by Dan Gould

[Scott Dolan]

That good, eh?

I'll have to see if they have that on the HD site. I'm willing to give it a go.

[Dan Gould]

That good, eh?

I'll have to see if they have that on the HD site. I'm willing to give it a go.

Well, just as an FYI, I used to go by the handle "Gene Harris Fanatic" so perhaps you should take my opinion with a grain of salt. But its a deeply soulful recording of mostly slow blues and when I first heard it, the first thing I did was to put on the headphones and turn out the lights and just listen.

So before you drop big bucks, I'd see about sampling online to see if you'll dig the music. There are people here who actually think its a snooze. Some of them even feel the same way about Grant Green's Feelin' the Spirit.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Dan Gould

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

That good, eh?

I'll have to see if they have that on the HD site. I'm willing to give it a go.

Well, just as an FYI, I used to go by the handle "Gene Harris Fanatic" so perhaps you should take my opinion with a grain of salt. But its a deeply soulful recording of mostly slow blues and when I first heard it, the first thing I did was to put on the headphones and turn out the lights and just listen.

So before you drop big bucks, I'd see about sampling online to see if you'll dig the music. There are people here who actually think its a snooze, along the lines of Grant Green's Feelin' the Spirit.

I think I agree with Dan - listen first. The real reason, though, that this is such a great album to listen to on headphones or whatever, is Stanley's SOUND. Gene's playing is fine but not, I think, the main audio interest. So even if you're not a great Harris fan (and I just like him quite a bit), if you appreciate Stanley, you're in for a good time.

MG