Coltrane discographies

[medjuck]

There are at least a couple of Trane discographies on-line that I can find but neither of them have been updated in a while. They're missing most of the info from March 28, 1960 session that's on the Jazz Icon disc and some grey area cds. But I'm particularly trying to get the info on the 3 cuts found on the First Impulse release: Laura, The Damned Don't Cry, and Nakatine Serenade. Anyone have it?

[king ubu]

Have you tried "Coltrane Reference" and the updates on David Wild's site?

Here's the 1960 additions with some info/updates on March 28:

http://www.wildmusic-jazz.com/jcr_1960.htm

And here's 1961 with additions/updates on the Africa/Brass session:

http://www.wildmusic-jazz.com/jcr_1961.htm

[mikeweil]

As much as I appreciate David Wild's work, the printed book type format makes it cumbersome to find your way through all the updates. I'm afraid I couldn't convince him to use BRIAN, but if you use such a database discography, any updates will be displayed on the session entry as soon as you've entered or changed the data. If you're thinking in a book type format, you always have to re-write everything ...

I will get me the cheaper paperback edition of the Coltrane Reference, anyway.

[king ubu]

It's a great book!

And while I'd love it to update automatically, I don't really care much about updates with regard to new European bootlegs of live concerts - to me, it's more interesting to follow Trane nearly day-by-day. The chronology hence is the much more interesting half of the book to me (I have probably 98% of the recorded music anyway and know on which disc to find what ... call me an ignorant, but I've always been more into having all session info there, rather than knowing that track number seventeen was on this and that various artists compilation, too ... on the other hand, it can be very helpful to actually hunt down some particular track, but then that's not an issue with Coltrane, it's almost all there anway!)

[mikeweil]

The basic session info is at the core of every serious discography, anyway.

The problem is, if you decide to exclude certain issues, which to choose and which not - I had these discussions thirty years ago with H.L.Lindenmaier who wrote a Monk disco for Jazz Podium and included only main issues, and regretted it the moment it was in print. For a book it is okay and makes sense for various reasons to include only the session info and the first and/or main issues - we did that for the upcoming Tjader book - but it's always problematical. If you have only one take available in different edits your criteria for exclusion are no longer applicable.

The best solution may be just the session info for the printed version and a complete listing online - Noal Cohen and Mike Fitzgerald will handle it this way with the 2nd printing of the Gigi Gryce book.

I'll never call you an ignorant - and you know you aren't ...

[king ubu]

I see your point and can endorse it for sure!

It's just that with Coltrane Reference, the chronology half (documenting gigs etc) was much more intriguing to me than the actual discography half of the book. But of course I could learn some from that part, too ... some of the releases are messy (the notorius Fantasy box is the worst), and some of the chopped up late session were interesting to read up, too.

The bad thing is just that any printed discography will be outdated as soon as it's fixed on paper ... I guess it would be cool to put the entire discography online somewhere. If they don't want to give it away for free, put a coupon into the book or something like that ...

But regardless, it's a huge achievment (and I will buy a second edition, too, call me crazy! I went for the first a year or so ago, when the paperback was still unsure).

So you're doing a Tjader book? A discography? Anyway, that's cool!

And if the Gryce book really comes out again, I won't miss it this time!

[medjuck]

To be honest I didn't know about this book, just the Wilde on-line discography. And I also don't care much about each issue-- I'm still trying to find the session information that's not on-line. Anyway thanks for info about the book. Is there a new edition in the works or should I just buy the rather expensive paperback?

[John L]

But I'm particularly trying to get the info on the 3 cuts found on the First Impulse release: Laura, The Damned Don't Cry, and Nakatine Serenade. Anyone have it?

Very good question. I downloaded these three tracks from Amazon as I already have the rest of "First Impulse." Was there any discographical information included in the booklet that goes with the set? Maybe this information is on the Wild discography site, as suggested above, but I couldn't find it.

Edited March 12, 2013 by John L

[king ubu]

Not many details given in the box:

disc four info, page 78 of the box/book:

Africa/Brass rehearsal band featuring John Coltrane and Cal Massey

8. Laura rehearsal version (David Raksin-Johnny Mercer)

9. Nakatine Serenade slow version (Cal Massey)

10. The Damned Don't Cry rehearsal version (Cal Massey)

Recorded early 1961

Previously unissued

Recording courtesy of Zane Massey

it's a splendid set, btw, I enjoy having it a lot, even though I've already had most of the music in other editions!

[gvopedz]

If you're thinking in a book type format, you always have to re-write everything ...

What do you mean "re-write everything"? I am sure you know about "copy and paste."

[J.A.W.]

If you're thinking in a book type format, you always have to re-write everything ...

What do you mean "re-write everything"? I am sure you know about "copy and paste."

And how do you "copy and paste" from a physical item like a book?

Edited March 13, 2013 by J.A.W.

[gvopedz]

If you're thinking in a book type format, you always have to re-write everything ...

What do you mean "re-write everything"? I am sure you know about "copy and paste."

And how do you "copy and paste" from a physical item like a book?

I was referring to updates to David Wild’s website. My guess is that he types the new text (or update) once, and then adds the text to each webpage that needs to have the new text.

Today’s technology does let you copy and paste from a physical book. But then we get into copyright issues.

[Niko]

i really don't want to interrupt this discussion, but

looking through Wild's additions I found this item,

http://www.wildmusic-jazz.com/jcr_1965.htm

in particular the quote "Over the years, in liners, books and lists, Don Garrett has been attributed with playing bass clarinet. This is wrong. The man only played bass and clarinet (the small and straight horn, that is). [...]" and the request to delete bcl after Donald Garrett for Live in Seattle... So I'm wondering: Who is playing bass clarinet on the first track of Kulu Se Mama (sounds very very much like a bass clarinet to me...)? [ie why is there no request to make a correction there, too]

[John L]

Not many details given in the box:

disc four info, page 78 of the box/book:

Africa/Brass rehearsal band featuring John Coltrane and Cal Massey

8. Laura rehearsal version (David Raksin-Johnny Mercer)

9. Nakatine Serenade slow version (Cal Massey)

10. The Damned Don't Cry rehearsal version (Cal Massey)

Recorded early 1961

Previously unissued

Recording courtesy of Zane Massey

it's a splendid set, btw, I enjoy having it a lot, even though I've already had most of the music in other editions!

Thanks, Ubu!