CJ Shearn Posted March 1, 2013 Report Posted March 1, 2013 Scientology reference again methinks. Quote
Guy Berger Posted March 1, 2013 Report Posted March 1, 2013 No need to take it personally. It's my opinion and I stand behind it. Clearly Chick was more into the electric stuff than Keith was. To me, that dedication makes a huge difference. Overall, I'd agree that the MUSIC was great, but that doesn't mean that each individual excelled or even had to excel. That was what Miles was all about, after all. John said: Black Beauty demanded that type of playing. Funny you should compare that to Jarrett's role in Miles' band. If you listen to Keith, he was only there because he looked up to Miles, hated playing the electric instruments and basically didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. So what you're hearing as complementing was actually cluelessness. I totally disagree about Jarrett with Miles. Despite what he said, he played brilliantly and to say he didn't have a clue is total bullshit. Both Chick and Keith, individually and collectively, contributed greatly to the Miles Davis music of those years. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I really like Chick's work up through the ECM years and then. . . well. . . I really heard nothing that I felt I had to own until the Origin studio and live material came out. Just a personal thing, as Starthrower mentions how many Corea albums does one need? Not many in my case. It's not like other artists where I want to have all I can of their work, I'm much choosier about his work and really like his most traditional fare the best. I wasn't taking anything personally, that statement is total BS. It doesn't matter what Keith's personal opinion may have been about the instruments (and I don't totally believe what he says)--he delivered as effectively as Chick (maybe even more so as far as tonal varieties and funk groove). "Doesn't have a clue what he's doing?" That's just utter BS, or to put it your way an opinion that in my opinon is either just hyperbole or uninformed. Sorry. I'm with Lon here. Keith's playing is great (as is Chick's in earlier Miles groups). I take most of his comments about that band with a large grain of salt. As far as Chick, I like what I've heard of his more recent music, but generally my interest with him dwindles rapidly post-1973. Quote
David Posted March 1, 2013 Report Posted March 1, 2013 Count me in as one who has been lapping up all Chick's new stuff -- definitely a career renaissance as far as I'm concerned. The Return to Forever stuff is absolutely killer, the Continents was different, his work with Hiromi was incredible, Hot House with Gary Burton is excellent, and his tribute to Bill Evans is good, if not great. The only thing I've been disappointed with recently is his album with Bollani. I'd also welcome another go around with Bobby McFerrin, for sure. Quote
king ubu Posted March 1, 2013 Report Posted March 1, 2013 Scientology reference again methinks. Yes indeed. I've got big issues there, but this isn't the politics thread, so let's keep it at that. I guess I still ought to check out some of Origin's music eventually ... I've also heard some live material with Chick replacing Roy Haynes' regular piano player in the mid noughties, and he was very good. Plus I enjoy the music he made with Joe Henderson, ca. 1980/81 (Mirror Mirror on MPS, the great live album from Montreux Chick put out on his own label, and there's another one ...) ... But still, my favourite Corea is the early one, roughly "Joan's Bones" to "Circle" and "Trio Music". The Complete "IS" set was quite nice an addition to the other favourites ... actually I was hoping Mosaic would do a Select of his UA material, Circulus etc. (when I proposed it, Cuscuna thought it was a sound idea ... but we all know Selects are no more, so I guess I got to at least pick up that 2LP set from the seventies ... saw it somewhere, not that cheap, but should be in good condition, so ...) Quote
Milestones Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Posted March 1, 2013 There's definitely some awesome chemistry between Chick and the great Roy Haynes. Chick has put out comparatively few trio dates (at least the more official ones), but when he has Roy Haynes is usually behind the kit. The tribute to Monk on "Trio Music" is simply superb. Quote
tranemonk Posted March 1, 2013 Report Posted March 1, 2013 I've been loving and appreciating Chick's recent output. I give him credit for being 70 and consistently trying new bands and new concepts. I don't think they all work. I really have loved the RTF live stuff, the Bill Evans stuff and the Continents CD. Hot House and the Bollani didn't work for me. I caught him live doing the Hot House record with Gary Burton and it just didn't work... Quote
Milestones Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) I pretty much liked earlier versions of the Burton/Corea duo, but now it doesn't seem to do much for me. Not sure why that is. On the new record, I like their take on "Eleanor Rigby, and I like Monk's "Light Blue." Otherwise, nothing stands out at all. Edited March 2, 2013 by Milestones Quote
robertoart Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Do you guys/and or gals actually listen to this stuff....like......VOLUNTARILY? This is SMOOTH JAZZ for Particle Physicists. If INXS could play Giant Steps it would sound like this. Edited March 4, 2013 by freelancer Quote
king ubu Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 more like: smooth jazz for guys who wish to be particle physicists so hard they have wet dreams about it (and can't yet become particle physicists since they're busy handling their pimples) Quote
colinmce Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 Do you guys/and or gals actually listen to this stuff....like......VOLUNTARILY? This is SMOOTH JAZZ for Particle Physicists. If INXS could play Giant Steps it would sound like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpK80Brw788 To be fair, I don't think anyone is really defending this stuff. My wife's dad loved "Keytar Chick" back in the day so she's always incredulous when I listen to him (which is to say the "good" ones). That is one mental hurdle she can't jump! Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 Do you guys/and or gals actually listen to this stuff....like......VOLUNTARILY? This is SMOOTH JAZZ for Particle Physicists. If INXS could play Giant Steps it would sound like this. I like him on the albums he made with Montego Joe and Blue Mitchell Now those are proper music! MG Quote
robertoart Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 Do you guys/and or gals actually listen to this stuff....like......VOLUNTARILY? This is SMOOTH JAZZ for Particle Physicists. If INXS could play Giant Steps it would sound like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpK80Brw788 To be fair, I don't think anyone is really defending this stuff. My wife's dad loved "Keytar Chick" back in the day so she's always incredulous when I listen to him (which is to say the "good" ones). That is one mental hurdle she can't jump! Yeah, I know. I just can't for the life of me, work out how musicians that have been as 'intellectually' brilliant as Corea has (and even 'conceptually great at times), can actually 'believe' in the 'art' of some (most) of the stuff that subsumes his musical 'vision'. Quote
JSngry Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 I just can't for the life of me, work out how musicians that have been as 'intellectually' brilliant as Corea has (and even 'conceptually great at times), can actually 'believe' in the 'art' of some (most) of the stuff that subsumes his musical 'vision'. Math is a beautiful thing. But you gotta remember that it's math-beautiful, not woman-beautiful, or even perfect-high beautiful. Not everybody remembers, not all the time. Not that they always should. But... Quote
mjzee Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 I just can't for the life of me, work out how musicians that have been as 'intellectually' brilliant as Corea has (and even 'conceptually great at times), can actually 'believe' in the 'art' of some (most) of the stuff that subsumes his musical 'vision'. Math is a beautiful thing. But you gotta remember that it's math-beautiful, not woman-beautiful, or even perfect-high beautiful. Not everybody remembers, not all the time. Not that they always should. But... This is a great statement. I wish this BB had "like" buttons (like Facebook) so I could "like" this post. Quote
robertoart Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I just can't for the life of me, work out how musicians that have been as 'intellectually' brilliant as Corea has (and even 'conceptually great at times), can actually 'believe' in the 'art' of some (most) of the stuff that subsumes his musical 'vision'. Math is a beautiful thing. But you gotta remember that it's math-beautiful, not woman-beautiful, or even perfect-high beautiful. Not everybody remembers, not all the time. Not that they always should. But... Yes it's a good thought and very true. However, I don't think that really can/or does stand alone as the overarching principle or even raison d'etre of the many tasteless projects Corea and others from his Mullet Fusion milieu pass off as creative music. Whatever beauty is in 'the maths alone' is defaced by the production/ electronics or general 'sports performance' heart that drives the aesthetic. Seriously, the 'maths' of some of this shit, is no more intricate on face value than the stuff a Kenny G might play. And even more appallingly - less earthy too. The 'math' of Coltrane is beautiful, the 'math' of some of those that stand on his shoulders less so. Edited March 5, 2013 by freelancer Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 I saw the Elektric Band when I was 7 years old at the JVC Jazz Festival at the Hollywood Bowl, but I've never liked the Elektric Band's music all the much. For example, the Live At Montreux 2004, the second half is better than the "To the Stars" music of the first half. Though I think the Vigil group will play some of that music and some RTF music too. Quote
robertoart Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 The trio stuff and some other tributaries sound worthy for sure, but I think that many of the truly great musicians who thrive on diversity, have a consistency of aesthetic or even an integrity of vision that grounds their oeuvre - even when not matched by overall quality at times. Corea, I just feel, really 'believes' in the goodness of too many naff music environments. I know it still means his good stuff is good stuff, but it puts me off making the time to find out. I suppose this is why threads like this can be good for the 'naysayers' to dig a little deeper. Quote
JSngry Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Whatever beauty is in 'the maths alone' is defaced by the production/ electronics or general 'sports performance' heart that drives the aesthetic. There is the sports beauty too, although this is not that beautiful. This is like county-fair beautiful, where you're supposed to like it barbecue WOOOO!!!! and then go home and wake up the next morning to do the chores, because that's what life is REALLY all about, all the while remembering that WOOOO!!!! that you got to see at the fair, last night/last week, last month, last year, that one time. Unless of course your gig is plying the county fair circuit, in which case you gotta look for that WOOO!!!!, keep it lively, and keep it ever WOOOO!!!ier as the years pass, because people got tv now. Quote
JETman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 The trio stuff and some other tributaries sound worthy for sure, but I think that many of the truly great musicians who thrive on diversity, have a consistency of aesthetic or even an integrity of vision that grounds their oeuvre - even when not matched by overall quality at times. Corea, I just feel, really 'believes' in the goodness of too many naff music environments. I know it still means his good stuff is good stuff, but it puts me off making the time to find out. I suppose this is why threads like this can be good for the 'naysayers' to dig a little deeper. Easy solution: Know before you buy. Quote
robertoart Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Whatever beauty is in 'the maths alone' is defaced by the production/ electronics or general 'sports performance' heart that drives the aesthetic. There is the sports beauty too, although this is not that beautiful. This is like county-fair beautiful, where you're supposed to like it barbecue WOOOO!!!! and then go home and wake up the next morning to do the chores, because that's what life is REALLY all about, all the while remembering that WOOOO!!!! that you got to see at the fair, last night/last week, last month, last year, that one time. Unless of course your gig is plying the county fair circuit, in which case you gotta look for that WOOO!!!!, keep it lively, and keep it ever WOOOO!!!ier as the years pass, because people got tv now. The 'math' perspective is all very well and fine if 'the math' existed in a rarefied 'atmosphere' all to it's own. But it doesn't. It especially doesn't in the various Fusion worlds. The social reality of the musicians (and the music) intrudes on it. Kinda like Sport and TV. The trio stuff and some other tributaries sound worthy for sure, but I think that many of the truly great musicians who thrive on diversity, have a consistency of aesthetic or even an integrity of vision that grounds their oeuvre - even when not matched by overall quality at times. Corea, I just feel, really 'believes' in the goodness of too many naff music environments. I know it still means his good stuff is good stuff, but it puts me off making the time to find out. I suppose this is why threads like this can be good for the 'naysayers' to dig a little deeper. Easy solution: Know before you buy. Yeah. But this isn't Home Shopping Weekly. Or is it? Quote
robertoart Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 I suppose Tristano is the original progenitor of the 'cryogenic purity' of 'the math' - Nothing Dirty. Quote
JSngry Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 I think it's like county-fair midway. Tristano is quantum. They don't do quantum at county fairs, but they do do cotton candy, turkey legs, fun houses, and tilt-a-whirls, all of which are fun for a quick minute while you're actually doing them, but all of which will turn you sick if you don't get out after you're done. Quote
Milestones Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Posted March 7, 2013 You turn some interesting metaphors, JSngy. Quote
JSngry Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 I've been to my share of county fairs (and parking lot carnivals), and I've heard my share of geeky fusion. At some point, the similarities are too much to ignore. But it's all cool, it's all just people being people. Anything that can happen will! Quote
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