Do any tapes of Trane with JOS circa 1956, exist?

[CJ Shearn]

Doesn't guarantee they'd even be in good shape or probably are audience recordings, but it would be great if tapes like this do exist. It would also illuminate the Trane/JOS connection. I wish Blue Note would issue JOS' appearances at Newport in '57, '59 (which is smoking) and '63 but that would not happen at this point I don't think.

[CraigP]

I might be having a brain freeze, but JOS?

[jeffcrom]

I might be having a brain freeze, but JOS?

Jimmy Smith (James Oscar Smith)

[Hardbopjazz]

I Thought JOS meant Jimmy "Organ" Smith.

[Teasing the Korean]

Jazz of Smithsonian (JOS), a concert series organized by Norman Granz.

[Bill B]

I've found no evidence that Blue Note has any JOS @ Newport tapes .Am i I wrong here ?

[CJ Shearn]

They would probably have to license the tapes from VOA. The Newport '59 show *does* exist, I bought it from Wolfgang's Vault and burned it to disc. Jimmy was still playing bop live at that time, which contrasts with the increasingly more soul jazz direction of the albums. Only 25 minutes or so, but it's a smoking set and would need to be paired with something else. Were Jimmy's sets at Birdland in '57 or Small's Paradise prior to his first sessions taped??

[michel devos]

They would probably have to license the tapes from VOA. The Newport '59 show *does* exist, I bought it from Wolfgang's Vault and burned it to disc. Jimmy was still playing bop live at that time, which contrasts with the increasingly more soul jazz direction of the albums. Only 25 minutes or so, but it's a smoking set and would need to be paired with something else. Were Jimmy's sets at Birdland in '57 or Small's Paradise prior to his first sessions taped??

What were exactly the sets Jimmy recorded at Birland in 1957? Have they been released under another title? I never heard of these.

Thanks for any info.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

If Trane had done gigs with an organist, it would have been Shirley Scott. He, Shirley and Tootie Heath had a trio in '55.

MG

[king ubu]

late Feb/early March 1955:

Bill Carney's Hi-Tones (Bill Carney, John Coltrane, Shirley Scott, Albert "Tootie" Heath)

Coltrane in an interview with Björn Fremer (1960) - not sure why Coltrane refers to it as a trio:

I left Hodges 1954, then I played around Philly with an organ trio. You've heard of Shirley Scott - she was the organist. She swung me out of the place sometimes. Al Heath was on drums and we had a wonderful group. I got a chance to play, I was the only horn so I could stretch out, building up on the horn. That was what I wanted. Being with this group helped me very much.

~ taken from "The John Coltrane Story", Liner Notes for the Swedish edition of "Chamber's Music", Sonet SLP28, as quoted in: Coltrane Reference, p. 97)

September 1955, gig in Philadelphia:

Jimmy Smith Trio (John Coltrane, unknown drummer)

Odean Pope was Coltrane's successor (when he left to join Miles, first gig was September 27 to October 2 at Club Las Vegas, Baltimore, MD).

Not sure this link is still working (lots of stuff blocked on my work computer) - it's from an interview conducted in 2000 with Heath:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070928041509/http://www.iaje.org/article.asp?ArticleID=125

Supposedly, there's indeed a tape of the Carney band, but "Coltrane Reference" suggests the authors don't know it (not sure if there's any updates there - no updates on the 1955 page on David Wild's site)

[king ubu]

not sure this link is still working (lots of stuff blocked on my work computer) - it's from an interview conducted in 2000 with Heath:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070928041509/http://www.iaje.org/article.asp?ArticleID=125

here's the Heath quote from that interview (link still IS good):

Before that I played around Philadelphia with people like Coltrane, Bill Carney, Shirley Scott, and a group called the Hightones that played Allentown, Penn. and even got out as far as Harrisburg. But it was sporadic.

[mjzee]

Is there a "Philadelphia sound"?

[CJ Shearn]

Michel, I don't know if those sets were recorded in 1957, but if "Groovin at Smalls" and "At the Club Baby Grand" are any indication, the setlists would be quite varied. They've been referenced in the liners to Jimmy's BN albums, including a 1956 Small's engagement where he was signed on the spot by Alfred and Frank.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

late Feb/early March 1955:

Bill Carney's Hi-Tones (Bill Carney, John Coltrane, Shirley Scott, Albert "Tootie" Heath)

Coltrane in an interview with Björn Fremer (1960) - not sure why Coltrane refers to it as a trio:

If it was a quartet, it had 2 drummers. Sounds a bit advanced to me. Bill Carney is Trudi Pitts' drummer and old man. Known as 'Mister C'.

MG

[JSngry]

Carney also sang, and might have been fronting the group as such?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Can't read the sleeve, but I'll take your word for it

MG

[king ubu]

Yep, Carney is usually given as singer plus conga player, so he probably was more of the star of the show and emcee and showmaster or whatever ... would certainly be fascinating to hear a glimpse of it!

[JSngry]

Sorry, my bad - "Billy C." as heard on Strata-East (and elsewhere) = Billy Campbell, not Carney.

Still a quirky-fun kind of singer, though:

[Caravan]

Hi Tones - Scott, Tootie, Trane, Bill Carney