JSngry Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Nathan Davis and Henry Franklin, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah saw that, looks interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I guess you guys got the mail saying the Montreux date will be released on CD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yeah, I see that. Listened to part of the first track. To be fair, it is better than the Mizzell studio stuff, are they planning to issue this on CD hence the preview? Just sampled the opening track. If it's mostly like that it's a decent addition to the Byrd discography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I guess you guys got the mail saying the Montreux date will be released on CD? Didn't see where it says so ... frankly the mumbo-jumbo language in the mail sounded weird to me, all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I guess you guys got the mail saying the Montreux date will be released on CD? Didn't see where it says so ... frankly the mumbo-jumbo language in the mail sounded weird to me, all the way. You may be right. Well, in fact, you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I followed the link and again found that blatant marketing speak ... instead of a cover pic of the CD they'll release ... guess the later is nowhere in sight, as otherwise they'd certainly mentioned it? Too bad ... guess I'll have to get an earful of that stream as long as it lasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think it's just that free stream. I don't know if they are releasing it as a CD. They should just create a CD cover like the previous "Cookin at Montreux", copy the way the BNLA CD's look in Japan and that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Posted this info in the other thread running on this topic: BN folks say no plans to release on CD. Download will be available as a stream indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Re: Byrd's "A New Perspective" What are the precursors to the marriage of modern jazz and gospel choir on this record? Anybody do something like this previously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Probably not a strict precursor (though she may have been planning/meditating on this and similar later pieces for some time) but how about Mary Lou Williams' "St. Martin de Porres/Black Christ of the Andes" (rec. 1963)? And "The Devil": Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Thanks, Larry. Interesting -- I don't know this record at all! From the same year as "A New Perspective." My sense is that perhaps no one had literally married a gospel choir with modern jazz until Byrd did it, but that related ideas and concepts were undoubtedly in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks, Larry. Interesting -- I don't know this record at all! From the same year as "A New Perspective." My sense is that perhaps no one had literally married a gospel choir with modern jazz until Byrd did it, but that related ideas and concepts were undoubtedly in the air.It should be noted that the singers on 'A new perspective' were not a gospel choir. They were all stated in the notes to be graduates from the Manhattan School of Music and nothing in the notes implied that they ever sang in a church choir.I don't think any jazz albums have yet been made with a genuine gospel choir; the nearest was 'The gospel soul of Houston Person' (Savoy 14471, P-Vine PCD5345) in 1978, in which Houston was accompanied by the Atlanta Philharmonic Chorale and the Ogletree Brothers. In contrast, a number of secular pop records have been made with gospel choirs:Ray Stevens' 'Everything is beautiful' was made with the BC&M (Baptist, Catholic & Methodist) Choir of Nashville;Paul Simon's 'Still crazy after all these years' featured 1 cut with the Jessy Dixon Singers and 1 with the Chicago Community Choir; andForeigner's 'I want to know what love is' was made with the New Jersey Mass Choir.You have to have big money in your budget to employ a gospel choir. More than most jazz musicians can get.MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I've heard others say they find A New Perspective to be "embarrassing;" that the vocal parts are some sort of capitulation to an undeserving audience or that it's a poorly conceived fusion of sounds that don't belong together (I've never quite understood the problem). I'm wondering if the same critics have the same reaction to Black Christ Of The Andes or any of the recordings MG just listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Paul Simon's 'Still crazy after all these years' featured 1 cut with the Jessy Dixon Singers and 1 with the Chicago Community Choir Also this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I don't think any jazz albums have yet been made with a genuine gospel choir; uhhh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) "Gospel" is a slippery category. In relation to "A New Perspective" the issue is not whether the singers were either a standing church choir or an adhoc ensemble from the Manhattan School but whether the idiom in which they were singing qualifies as "gospel." Frankly, I'm not sure. We have an unbelievably great African American choir in Detroit -- the Brazeal Dennard Chorale -- that specializes in spirituals but also performs standard classical literature and they go nuts when they are called a gospel choir, because they associate the term with a more sanctified style, more vernacular, accompanied by electric organ/rhythm section etc. There is a formal, refined sound to the choir on the record -- the spirituals are there but its not sanctified as I would understand it. Can anybody offer of precise definition of "gospel" or what's the best way to refer to the choral part of "A New Perspective." Calling Allen Lowe, perhaps? Edited March 17, 2013 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think any jazz albums have yet been made with a genuine gospel choir; uhhh... Didn't know about that one, Jim. I have a nice Savoy album by the J C White Singers. Max Roach is a guy I admire, rather than like much, but I'll look into getting that one. Oh, and that reminds me of this one Jack McDuff - Lift every voice and sing - JAM - which has on several tracks the accompaniment of the Mt Pisgah Baptist Church Choir of Chicago on most tracks - Coltrane's 'Naima', Lorber's 'Night love', Scott-Heron's 'A prayer for everybody', as well as the title track. Memory doesn't work flawlessly MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 and of course.... not sure of the 'gospel' bone fide's of the small choir. And then again... Wonder how much the choir got paid for this one? When Lennon wanted something similar on one of his greatest songs 'Across The Universe' in 1968, he dragged some fans in from outside the studio to use as 'voices'. Must have been the Heroin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've heard others say they find A New Perspective to be "embarrassing;" that the vocal parts are some sort of capitulation to an undeserving audience or that it's a poorly conceived fusion of sounds that don't belong together (I've never quite understood the problem). I'm wondering if the same critics have the same reaction to Black Christ Of The Andes or any of the recordings MG just listed. Well, I think with "A New Perspective", personally, it's an album I love. There might be some merit to the fact some feel it's a fusion of things that don't blend well. The choir is rather ragged, and under rehearsed (it seems) and theres spots you really hear it. The liners say they were all recent graduates of the Manhattan school of Music, right? I think Donald may have wanted to bring some attention to them and gave them the opportunity to record. Also, the fact it's wordless maybe for some, takes away from the meaning of the subject matter of the album, I don't know. Just a thought. "Beyond the Wall" by Kenny Garrett has an extension, I feel, of this type of vocal style on several tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Another New Perspective lover here. I haven't listened to it in ages. Had it on a cassette Would really like to hear the original BN vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Despite what I said, I've got it and love it. I just don't think it's a merging of two kinds of music; just a jazz record with an unusual approach.MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Answering my own question, Max Roach's "It's Time" incorporates a choir and was recorded in Feb. 1962, about 11 months prior to "A New Perspective." Unless anyone can come up with evidence to the contrary, I think this may be the first time a choir in the African American tradition was mixed with a modern jazz group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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