Most interesting/favorite 'Herbie Hancock' BN

[mrjazzman]

Like most folks after all these years Maiden Voyage remains my favorite by a hair over Takin Off because of Dex............

[danasgoodstuff]

I'm particularly fascinated by the alternate take of "Blind Man", not just because I don't have it (box only?) and think it's superior to the master, but because of the large difference that one extra note in the bass makes....

Edited November 4, 2016 by danasgoodstuff

[DobermanBoston]

I'm a big "Herbie on Blue Note" fan. Speak Like a Child remains my favorite, but IMO you can't go wrong with any of them.

Has anyone ever heard this record he played on as a sideman during the same era, one which is conceptually quite similar to Maiden Voyage?

[mikeweil]

Creed Taylor's influence shows a little too much for my taste on that Thigpen disc. Tracks are somewhat short, rather polished. Herbie plays great, of course - he was like Taylor's house pianist at that time. Didn't like it enough to keep it.

[DobermanBoston]

Creed Taylor's influence shows a little too much for my taste on that Thigpen disc. Tracks are somewhat short, rather polished. Herbie plays great, of course - he was like Taylor's house pianist at that time.

Yes, and HH stayed on for Creed Taylor's A&M/CTI stuff as well, through the early 70s I believe.

Edited July 18, 2011 by DobermanBoston

[Shawn]

That Thigpen disc is BRILLIANT! The shorter songs don't matter, the arrangements are amazing and Clark Terry really leaps out. A fantastic album, I just wish they had done a couple more with that same lineup.

[JSngry]

I like the Thigpen side too. Short & polished cuts are no problem for me when they're this good. I mean, yeah, there's "presentation" involved, no doubt. But look what's being presented!

[Late]

Herbie has a type of perfectionist, controlling side on his albums as a leader. Some would come off better if he would let his sidemen cut loose a little more. I think he played some of his best solos when he was not in charge.

I actually think that Dexter does cut loose on Takin' Off, as an example. For me, his solos on that record are more inspired than any of his solos from his own Blue Note output.

I do agree, however, that some of Herbie's best solos (at least from the Blue Note era) are on other leader's sessions. Sam Rivers' Contours and Wayne Shorter's The All Seeing Eye come to mind. I also tend to think that Herbie plays more engagingly with Joe Chambers on the drums rather than, say, Tony Williams. Miles might disagree though.

[Rooster_Ties]

I do agree, however, that some of Herbie's best solos (at least from the Blue Note era) are on other leader's sessions. Sam Rivers' Contours and Wayne Shorter's The All Seeing Eye come to mind. I also tend to think that Herbie plays more engagingly with Joe Chambers on drums...

I re-listened to Speak Like a Child, The Prisoner, Empyrean Isles, and Maiden Voyage over the last couple days -- and much as I like the writing and arranging, I do hear what people are saying about wishing to soloists would cut loose a bit more.

Another thought. FWIW, Herbie's soloing on the unreleased "Trainwreck" is pretty strong (IMHO) in a very "All Seeing Eye" kind of way. In fact, when Tyrone lays out -- much of the result is one hell of a 'free'-ish piano trio album (with Jack D. and Herbie Lewis).

Also, another beloved 'challenging' date with Herbie (and Joe Chambers) is Wayne Shorter's "Etcetera" (which is probably my favorite Wayne leader-date).

[jazzbo]

My favorite Herbie on Blue Note sideman appearance and general playhing is "Feelin' the Spirit." He plays gloriously on this great session.

[sidewinder]

That Thigpen disc is BRILLIANT! The shorter songs don't matter, the arrangements are amazing and Clark Terry really leaps out. A fantastic album, I just wish they had done a couple more with that same lineup.

Totally agree with you Shawn. Hangs together very well as a concept album and one of the best of the Verve Elite Editions (RIP).

[DobermanBoston]

My favorite Herbie on Blue Note sideman appearance and general playhing is "Feelin' the Spirit." He plays gloriously on this great session.

That's easily one of my favorite Blue Note records.

As far as sideman appearances go Hancock is great on this one; Chambers too.

[six string]

On 4/13/2003 at 10:22 PM, Rooster_Ties said:

For years and years I've always said "Speak Like a Child", so that's how I voted here.

 

But, given my more recent interests - I might be inclined to consider "The Prisoner".

 

Damn, they're all great - hard to choose a bad one!!

 

I just bought The Prisoner today and I'm hearing it for the first time as I type.  I'm  on the second side now and I would agree with you on both points.  Speaks Like A Child was adventurous for him at the time but this album has a bit darker tone and attitude and the additional instruments create interesting 

Too many major chords gives me the willies.  I prefer the additional instrumentation on The Prisoner as well.  

[Eric]

I adore My Point Of View and in particular, "A Tribute To Someone".  The absolutely perfect "softer side of hard bop" track.  The tune is so tuneful and just plain gorgeous - I love the way it alternates between Byrd and Mobley in the head.  Their solos as well as Herbie's are in the pocket perfect.

The "Blind Man" is great fun and nice to hear Grant Green on the track.  "King Cobra" and "The Pleasure Is Mine" seem to be moving in the direction of Empyrean and Maiden.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Eric

[CJ Shearn]

"Empyrean Isles" remains my favorite Herbie BN, and have "Inventions And Dimensions" on now which I haven't played in a long time. That one is brilliant because of the improvised structures, the locking in of the African/Latin grooves, and some of the first hints of Herbie's signature use of repetition, engaging and inciting dialogues with the rhythm section, this quality I think is wonderfully displayed years later on Milt Jackson's "Sunflower" and any of the sides with Tony Williams.  "Happenings" is still great for his ferocious sideman playing, that is up next.  I don't agree with the sentiments Chuck made years ago that none of these albums are great, but to each their own.  Yesterday I dug back into the Columbia box as well.

[Peter Friedman]

On 7/11/2011 at 6:01 AM, Dan Gould said:

 

 

Seconded. I may have boring, pedestrian hard-bop tastes but this is the indispensible Herbie-on-BN for me.

 

Takin' Off would be my favorite.  Dexter Gordon's playing is a key here.

I have to admit to what is likely a minority view regarding Herbie Hancock.

Though he is certainly a good jazz piano player, he has never been a favorite of mine.The are many many many jazz pianists i prefer to Herbie.

[Rooster_Ties]

Seeing this, I'm remembering that I (finally) found the 1987 McMaster version of The Prisoner on CD (remaindered, maybe?), in a small box of of about 20-25 OOP Blue Note CD's by the cash-register at Jazz Record Mart -- in about 1991 or so (I got up to Chicago once or twice a year back then, when I was in school about 3 hours away).  It was the very last Herbie BN leader-date I *didn't* yet have on CD (don't think I'd ever heard it either).

It was SO much darker than anything else I'd heard by him, and I was a big Joe Henderson nut back then too - so I was pretty much in heaven when I finally got to hear it a couple days after I'd bought it.  I must have spun it 10 times that next week, iirc.

Not a whole lot of other albums quite like it either, that I can think of (certainly not back then).  I sure wish Herbie's "Gil Evans" phase was an album or two longer -- he really had a knack for that kind of writing.  In fact, has ANYONE ever attempted anything specifically like Herbie's smaller-group "Gil"-esque writing?  The economy/complexity of the results -- much like Gil's own economical writing - was really something special.

[CJ Shearn]

Herbie still explored that kind of writing with that sort of voicing for reeds and horns on "Come Running To Me", from "Sunlight" in a different context, but the clear link and line from "Speak Like a Child", "The Prisoner" (one of the few Herbie BN's I don't own, need to rectify that) "Tell Me A Bedtime Story", at least to my ear is there.

Edited April 13, 2018 by CJ Shearn

[Daniel A]

On 2011-07-18 at 6:04 AM, DobermanBoston said:

I'm a big "Herbie on Blue Note" fan. Speak Like a Child remains my favorite, but IMO you can't go wrong with any of them.

 

Has anyone ever heard this record he played on as a sideman during the same era, one which is conceptually quite similar to Maiden Voyage?

I am many years too late, but I believe they actually recorded a version of 'Maiden Voyage' at the Thigpen session, but it was not included on the album and the tape is now lost.

[Dan Gould]

4 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

 

Takin' Off would be my favorite.  Dexter Gordon's playing is a key here.

I have to admit to what is likely a minority view regarding Herbie Hancock.

Though he is certainly a good jazz piano player, he has never been a favorite of mine.The are many many many jazz pianists i prefer to Herbie.

Weird getting quoted seven years after the fact but I would have to agree with Peter really about all of this ... My Point of View is indispensable but if I literally had to choose between it and Takin' Off I'd go with the latter. And I also agree about Herbie in relationship to quite a few other jazz pianists.

[Guy Berger]

HH’s albums for BN are probably the biggest duds for me relative to expectations, for any artist on the label.

[Daniel A]

Well, just to represent a different point of view - to me, Empyrean Isles is as good a BN album as it gets. Fresh, inspired playing all around. I think I voted for that album back then (can't seem to find that out now). I think it has Tony Williams' best playing as a BN sideman and Hubbard never sounded better. As for Herbie, he cuts loose in a way he doesn't on his other albums for the label. If Herbie is a control freak, to me it appears as if he was able to break free from that on Empyrean Isles.

[JSngry]

I think it's funny how people look at these records like they were some kind of documents of working bands and then say stuff like, well, herbie played better on other people's records than he did on his own, etc when shit, his and wayne's and tony's and who knows who all else's records were projects, not bands. you know, you're playing that lost quintet music all the time, shit keep getting freer and freer, outer and outer, and then lion wants a bn record with songs and shit, well, that's a change. wayne broke loose into his own band-mentailty, eventually (and on Blue Note), so did herbie, so did they all, but all those cats played more than soooooo many people, then and now, what's the point of obsessing over 50-ish year old project records. they all have their merits and they all have their holes, Maiden Voyage makes for a great "album experience", Empyrean Isles brings the heat. the first two BNs are great period pieces, Inventions and Dimensions is a wonderful palate of harmonic colors, Speak Like A Child is a very unified concept executed exceptionally well, i still find The Prisoner the weakest of the lot, but really, who gives a fuck, we've all heard them by now, right? They are what they are. The guy's done a buttload full of music since then, several buttloads in fact, and there will still be excellents among them, just because he can still play and he can still think, and his ceilings for both are pretty damn high. And there will be a buttload full of disposables too, because, you know, he's made a whole lot of all different types of records.

My favorite Herbie record is Village Life, and it's not on Blue Note.

22 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

 In fact, has ANYONE ever attempted anything specifically like Herbie's smaller-group "Gil"-esque writing? 

Gerry Mulligan, actually. Totally different bag though. But, color, counterpoint, piquancy of voicings, he did it. Not full-on, but he'd drop that shit in when nobody was looking more than a few times.

Check out the bridge and the ending, how he uses the bass as a third horn to make the dissonant-ish horn voicings work better than they otherwise might.

 

[Teasing the Korean]

7 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Well, just to represent a different point of view - to me, Empyrean Isles is as good a BN album as it gets.

I consider Maiden Voyage and Empyrean Isles to be exotica records.  The cover art and the liner notes reinforce this.  

[Joe]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

My favorite Herbie record is Village Life, and it's not on Blue Note

 

 

On the BNs, INVENTIONS AND DIMENSIONS.

Overall? SEXTANT.