sgcim Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Anyone have this Bethlehem LP, BCP 18? It's a Sam Most LP with Oscar Pettiford on one side, and another group with Burger Jones(!) on bass. I read online that Ronnie Woellmer, a trumpet player, arranged the four or five cuts with Pettiford. Can anyone verify this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Anyone have this Bethlehem LP, BCP 18? It's a Sam Most LP with Oscar Pettiford on one side, and another group with Burger Jones(!) on bass. I read online that Ronnie Woellmer, a trumpet player, arranged the four or five cuts with Pettiford. Can anyone verify this? For anything discographical about Pettiford, I trust this link: http://themenschmidt.de/don.htm It says: 5503 NYC. Sam Most Sextet. Sam Most fl, cl, Marty Flax bs, Bill Triglia p, Barry Galbraith g, Oscar Pettiford b, Osie Johnson d. Ronnie Woellmer arr.Falling In Love With LoveRose RoomSmilesBroadway'Deed I Do East Coast Jazz 9. Sam Most. Bethlehem BCP-18. - Sam Most: I'm nuts about the Most....Sam that is! East Coast Jazz 9. FSR-2029. Cover art by Burt Goldblatt. Edited January 21, 2013 by brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztrain Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 There are two sets of notes on the back of the LP, one by Creed Taylor and the other by Sam Most. In his notes, Creed Taylor states the following: "Ronny [sic] Woellmer's writing is warm and pleasant, and of inventive, swinging interest to jazz scholars and laymen alike. There is a certain welcome paucity of funkiness in Ronny's writing, which may afford relief for some musical palates. In any case, the arrangements provide an intelligent, well-conceived showcase for the talents of Sam Most." Sam Most is quoted as follows: "I told my arranger, Ronnie Woellmer, that I wanted to present a unique group which had a pleasant sound, and above all, which would swing. Ronnie, who is one of the most competent and effective arrangers I know, went to work assiduously and turned out the ten arrangements in this album." The music on the LP is from two sessions. Session 1: Sam Most (fl, cl), Marty Flax (bars), Bill Triglia (p), Barry Galbraith (g), Burgher Jones (b), Bobby Donaldson (d). Cherokee Don't Worry 'bout Me How Deep Is the Ocean What a Difference a Day Made Tea for Two Session 2: Oscar Pettiford (b) replaces Jones, Osie Johnson (d) replaces Donaldson. Smiles Broadway 'Deed I Do Falling in Love with Love Rose Room Note that the correct spelling of the bassist's name on the first session is "Burgher" Jones. He was known as Buddy Jones. Here's a link to his obituary: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Burgher-Jones-2770270.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Wow, Jazztrain, that's enough info to send me out looking for that LP; thanks! Ron used to be a very good trumpet player. He's featured on the LP "Compositions of Bobby Scott", and he sounds like a Fruscella/Joseph/Chet Baker-type player. When I was doing gigs with him back in the 80s, he had switched to piano, and he had some great re-harmonizations of standards that have stayed with me to this day. He was starting to gain some noteriety on trumpet (he placed in a DB Poll) when he had some type of injury that ruined his trumpet chops. If you know of anything else he arranged on, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztrain Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Sgcim, Now you have me interested in the "Compositions of Bobby Scott" album. I'll have to look out for that. I'm not familiar with Ron Moeller, but I'll have to look out for more of his work. I have originals of a few of the Sam Most Bethlehem albums, but for the one mentioned in this thread, I have just a Fresh Sound LP reissue. I thought I had seen a refererence many years ago to an announcement for a Sam Most cd box set containing all of his work on Bethlehem. Turns out it must have just been a dream! Wow, Jazztrain, that's enough info to send me out looking for that LP; thanks! Ron used to be a very good trumpet player. He's featured on the LP "Compositions of Bobby Scott", and he sounds like a Fruscella/Joseph/Chet Baker-type player. When I was doing gigs with him back in the 80s, he had switched to piano, and he had some great re-harmonizations of standards that have stayed with me to this day. He was starting to gain some noteriety on trumpet (he placed in a DB Poll) when he had some type of injury that ruined his trumpet chops. If you know of anything else he arranged on, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted Tuesday at 02:00 AM Author Report Share Posted Tuesday at 02:00 AM I just found another Sam Most Sextet album that features two compositions by RW for the same personnel, and one of his tunes sounds like something George Russell or Jimmy Giuffre would have written in the 50s. It's from a re-issue "Doubles in Jazz featuring two ten inch records, one by Don Elliot, and the other by Sam Most. Here's the cut I'm talking about: https://archive.org/details/lp_doubles-in-jazz_don-elliott-quartet-sam-most-sextet/disc1/02.06.+Open+House.mp3 He also wrote a composition for the Claude Thornhill Orchestra called "Claudehopper" while he played trumpet with them, which I'm still looking for. This guy was another Gil Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted Tuesday at 12:53 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 12:53 PM BTW, Most's Bethlehem catalogue was rereleased round 2013-2014 on the Japanese Solid Label (part of the massive Bethlehem reissue series) - really dig his Bethlehem sessions https://www.discogs.com/release/10346180-Sam-Most-Musically-Yours https://www.discogs.com/release/11372036-Sam-Most-Plays-Bird-Bud-Monk-And-Miles https://www.discogs.com/release/12755874-Sam-Most-The-Amazing-Mr-Sam-Most https://www.discogs.com/release/11425992-Sam-Most-Sextette-Im-Nuts-About-The-MostSam-That-Is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted Tuesday at 01:11 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 01:11 PM I'll second that . . the Bethlehem titles are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted Tuesday at 01:28 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 01:28 PM (edited) Google does not yield any results for the word "Claudehopper" in connection with "Claude Thornhill". But another online search that led me to the DAHR website shows that a tune named "Claudhopper" was recorded on 2 March 1959 (Woellmer was on trumpet at this session according to the DAHR site) and released on this LP: https://www.discogs.com/de/master/1463148-Claude-Thornhill-And-His-Orchestra-Dance-To-The-Sound-Of-Claude-Thornhill-And-His-Orchestra Probably one of Thornhill's less memorable efforts when (according to various biographies on him) he certainly was past his progressive prime and had settled in a more conventional dance band routine. I recently picked up a copy of his slightly earlier "Plays for Dancing" LP. Nice enough as a document of its times but hardly in a league with his 40s recordings. And I have little reason to believe that that Decca LP of 1959 is radically more "modernist" again. Edited Tuesday at 01:32 PM by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztrain Posted Tuesday at 02:19 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 02:19 PM 12 hours ago, sgcim said: I just found another Sam Most Sextet album that features two compositions by RW for the same personnel, and one of his tunes sounds like something George Russell or Jimmy Giuffre would have written in the 50s. It's from a re-issue "Doubles in Jazz featuring two ten inch records, one by Don Elliot, and the other by Sam Most. Here's the cut I'm talking about: https://archive.org/details/lp_doubles-in-jazz_don-elliott-quartet-sam-most-sextet/disc1/02.06.+Open+House.mp3 He also wrote a composition for the Claude Thornhill Orchestra called "Claudehopper" while he played trumpet with them, which I'm still looking for. This guy was another Gil Evans Funny to see this thread revived after close to 12 years! As Big Beat Steve just noted above, the tune appears as "Claudhopper" on the LP with Woellmer listed as composer. The back of the LP can be seen here: This recording is available online. See here for example: https://archive.org/details/dancetosoundofcl00thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted Tuesday at 03:22 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:22 PM 59 minutes ago, jazztrain said: This recording is available online. See here for example: https://archive.org/details/dancetosoundofcl00thor Thanks for the link. Interesting to listen in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted Tuesday at 03:43 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:43 PM Just bought a UK pressing of 'Nuts about...' off the back of this discussion. Not sure why I haven't investigated Most before as I have a weakness for flute in Jazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted Tuesday at 03:45 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:45 PM Just now, mjazzg said: Not sure why I haven't investigated Most before as I have a weakness for flute in Jazz I DON'T particularly like flute in jazz but I do like the "Nuts about ..." Sam Most LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted Wednesday at 12:23 AM Author Report Share Posted Wednesday at 12:23 AM (edited) 10 hours ago, jazztrain said: Funny to see this thread revived after close to 12 years! As Big Beat Steve just noted above, the tune appears as "Claudhopper" on the LP with Woellmer listed as composer. The back of the LP can be seen here: This recording is available online. See here for example: https://archive.org/details/dancetosoundofcl00thor Thanks, mucho! Sounds like CT wanted a swinging chart in the style of Sammy Nestico. That's RW on the trumpet solo, and he sounds like an excellent player. Sadly, he lost most of his teeth in a car accident, and had to switch to piano. The liner notes are strange. They make no reference to the album itself; just a history of the Thornhill Band that discusses the influence of Gil Evans on it. In addition, Texas Blues must have been arr. by Lennie Sinisgalli (listed here as Sinisgal) who was also a great alto sax player and arr. I used to play with. They held a Memorial for him at St. Peter's in NYC (he died tragically young in his 40s while on the road, of a hemorrhage), and he was so beloved by NY musicians, that Torrie Zito gathered a big band, and they played LS' arrangements to a crowd that was the size of an NBA game! This is compared to more well known jazz musicians like Jimmy Raney's, whose Memorial was attended by a much smaller group of people. Edited Wednesday at 12:51 AM by sgcim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted Wednesday at 09:00 AM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 09:00 AM Just playing this Thornhill album and rereading Mike Zwerin's memories of touring with Thornhill against it (here, starting with "Claude Thornhill loved confusion.") In particular, Zwerin remembers that "Arrangements written for full sections were being played by only one trombone, two trumpets, four saxophones, and a now guitarless rhythm section, plus the essential French horn". But for this album, there's a full big band again with some studio pros like Frank Rehak, Urbie Green, Barry Galbraith... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted yesterday at 12:53 AM Author Report Share Posted yesterday at 12:53 AM (edited) On 11/27/2024 at 4:00 AM, Niko said: Just playing this Thornhill album and rereading Mike Zwerin's memories of touring with Thornhill against it (here, starting with "Claude Thornhill loved confusion.") In particular, Zwerin remembers that "Arrangements written for full sections were being played by only one trombone, two trumpets, four saxophones, and a now guitarless rhythm section, plus the essential French horn". But for this album, there's a full big band again with some studio pros like Frank Rehak, Urbie Green, Barry Galbraith... Thanks for posting that Mike Zwerin excerpt. I've got to get that book! Edited yesterday at 01:18 AM by sgcim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted 20 hours ago Report Share Posted 20 hours ago 5 hours ago, sgcim said: Thanks for posting that Mike Zwerin excerpt. I've got to get that book! I just ordered it used from Amazon for $8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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