Public funding for jazz in England

[BillF]

From a letter in today's Guardian by Chris Hodgkins, Director, Jazz Sevices:

"The audience for opera in England is 1.6 million people; for jazz 2.5 million and for classical music 3.3 million. Total Arts Council funding for opera in England in 2012-13 is about £50m, for classical music £18.3m and for jazz £1.35m."

[A Lark Ascending]

Chris Hodgkins has been revealing those figures for at least the last 15 years.

Hasn't made any impact.

There is just a massive cultural prejudice amongst those who make the big decisions that in the scale of 'art', opera is much more worthy.

I don't know how you even begin to alter that.

[Head Man]

Chris Hodgkins has been revealing those figures for at least the last 15 years.

Hasn't made any impact.

There is just a massive cultural prejudice amongst those who make the big decisions that in the scale of 'art', opera is much more worthy.

I don't know how you even begin to alter that.

Make Ken Clarke the Minister for Arts?

[sidewinder]

For as long as I can remember there have always been 'aspirations' for jazz in this country. Remember the Jazz Centre Society and the HQ debacle? Unfortunately, amongst the public at large we're just a bunch of toe-tapping beardies who get thrown the occasional bone.

[A Lark Ascending]

We might begin to move things along if we dropped the 'Arts' and made whoever Minister for Cultural Diversity.

I'm inclined to use 'Entertainment' but that tends to confuse people.

Be interesting to know in the current round of cuts the proportion opera has lost by comparison with other musics. I think I can guess the answer.

For as long as I can remember there have always been 'aspirations' for jazz in this country. Remember the Jazz Centre Society and the HQ debacle? Unfortunately, amongst the public at large we're just a bunch of toe-tapping beardies who get thrown the occasional bone.

I vaguely remember a comment from John Tusa when he was bigwig for one of these 'Arts' bodies - might have been the BBC - to the effect that jazz fan are endlessly whining and their demands need to be resisted.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I vaguely remember a comment from John Tusa when he was bigwig for one of these 'Arts' bodies - might have been the BBC - to the effect that jazz fan are endlessly whining and their demands need to be resisted.

Quite right too.

Bollocks to government funding.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

I vaguely remember a comment from John Tusa when he was bigwig for one of these 'Arts' bodies - might have been the BBC - to the effect that jazz fan are endlessly whining and their demands need to be resisted.

Quite right too.

Bollocks to government funding.

MG

All well and good, as long as it's consistent. But currently we have government funding - and the rationale behind its distribution is highly prejudiced.

Incidentally, is that bollocks to government funding of everything (I've never thought of you as a libertarian free-marketeer!) or just of entertainment?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I vaguely remember a comment from John Tusa when he was bigwig for one of these 'Arts' bodies - might have been the BBC - to the effect that jazz fan are endlessly whining and their demands need to be resisted.

Quite right too.

Bollocks to government funding.

MG

All well and good, as long as it's consistent. But currently we have government funding - and the rationale behind its distribution is highly prejudiced.

Incidentally, is that bollocks to government funding of everything (I've never thought of you as a libertarian free-marketeer!) or just of entertainment?

Actually, as I used to be responsible for working up new ways for Wales to get around the EC regulations about subsidies () and know that none of them, mine or anyone else's, however delivered, had any of the presumed effects they were supposed to have on people's behaviour, it's pretty nearly everything. Not because I'm a libertarian free-marketeer, but because it's my taxes that are being thrown away so that some politicians can say they're doing something about something.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

I'd better watch out for my job, then! And hope I don't get ill!

Edited January 20, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm interested to hear you have the view that education is a private business subsidised by government. Some of it is, of course, but most isn't. Even the (very right leaning) business community of 1870 understood that they couldn't develop their businesses without educated workers and couldn't get them without government provision of education.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

I thought you were suggesting that state funding per se was bollocks.

For as long as I've been teaching the part of education I work in has been state funded - though step by step that might be slipping away.

Of course the public schools have always been private business funded by government (because of their marvellous charitable work of ensuring the sons and daughters of those who attend Covent Garden also get to the front of the life opportunities queue).

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I thought you were suggesting that state funding per se was bollocks.

For as long as I've been teaching the part of education I work in has been state funded - though step by step that might be slipping away.

Of course the public schools have always been private business funded by government (because of their marvellous charitable work of ensuring the sons and daughters of those who attend Covent Garden also get to the front of the life opportunities queue).

Oh no - any Government functions are government funded. I was talking about subsidies to the private sector, which are a waste of money or staff time (for those subsidies that are provided through lax regulation).

MG

[BillF]

From a letter in today's Guardian by Chris Hodgkins, Director, Jazz Sevices:

"The audience for opera in England is 1.6 million people; for jazz 2.5 million and for classical music 3.3 million. Total Arts Council funding for opera in England in 2012-13 is about £50m, for classical music £18.3m and for jazz £1.35m."

Reply today to Chris Hodgkins' letter:

"Yes, arts funding is unfair to jazz. But if Chris Hodgkins' figures are to be believed, our jazz club has a potential audience of 16,400 people. Regretfully, our club only attracts 35-40 people for the monthly gig. it's not about funding, it's about getting jazz fans out of the house. Having lived in the city for 73 years and a jazz fan for 60 of those, I know many of the fans in the city, which is a lot more than 40.

Ivor Lee

Corner Pocket Jazz Club, Coventry"

[A Lark Ascending]

"...it's not about funding, it's about getting jazz fans out of the house."

Guilty!

I have to travel 45 mins (each way) to the nearest jazz. I'm too knackered in in the week and really have to push myself on a Friday. Much easier to sit at home and listen to a CD.

Edited January 26, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[JohnS]

The golden age of jazz has gone. For example on Joe Lovano’s last visit to this part of the world he failed to fill the smallish but excellent concert hall on the university campus and Jazz festivals have to include world music and big names from outside jazz. Not very encouraging.

Of course we need more money in jazz and to get the audience out but the audience is not that big any more. There is little or no exposure to jazz, the nearest most people come to hearing jazz is when their ears pick up to the background music in a tv commercial.

I help manage our local club, it’s a university town with a large potential audience. We have no local authority funding or sponsorship. I’d guess that about 60% of our audience are, like me retired. No students attend. To put on a gig our standing costs are in excess of £200 to hire the room and the sound guy plus other expenses. Fortunately we have a core audience of about 70, entrance has to be in excess £12 currently to cover band fees. So it doesn’t take much to work out how much we can pay the musicians. We mostly break even but it’s a hand to mouth existence. A very poor night would put the venture in jeopardy.

We are also very conscious of the audience tastes, we have to stick to mainstream/modern bands, most of which are excellent and we get the biggest names we can afford. But sadly we can’t afford be too adventurous.

Next year will be our tenth year and whilst things aren’t looking too rosy we’ll probably be able to carry on.

[BillF]

I would agree with you, John, about the jazz club audience make-up: very high percentage of retirees, and these also feature prominently in the BBC jazz radio audience. Just about the only young people I ever see at live jazz sessions are music students learning jazz as part of their course and those a few years older with similar background who form the youngest strand of performing musicians. I don't go to classical concerts, but someone who does told me there are similarly few youngsters there. That's the provincial picture - things may be different in London.

[A Lark Ascending]

Don't think it's quite that bad age-wise where I go - Nottingham and Sheffield. Still a mainly grey-haired audience, but a fair sprinkling of younger listeners (both cities have several higher education centres). But that might reflect what I attend which tends to be at the contemporary-modern end of the spectrum.

Imagine both institutions struggle, though. The Christine Tobin concert I attended in Nottingham back in the Autumn had about 40 people in the audience - unusually small for a 'name' performer, but apparently Soweto Kinch was playing elsewhere in the city so the audience was split.