Kennedy Center Honors Buddy Guy and Led Zeppelin

[Jim R]

Johnny Winter!

Now there is a White Bluesman (in his heyday) who could play it loud and mean.

Faster, tougher, more authentic, and more 'Heavy", than any Englishmen.

The real man's Stevie Ray Vaughan.

there's no shame in saluting late 60's early 70's Johnny Winter

It was the way you saluted him (for me, at least). I'll just leave it at that, as I think it's time for this discussion to go away.

[BFrank]

Finally got around to watching the LZ segment. I thought ALL the performances were well done.

Some interesting moments:

• Grohl drumming, and the drummer singing
  
• Kid Rock, for being there. I never paid any attention to him before. Tasty arrangement, too.
  
• Lenny and his band for doing (and not over-doing) his 60s thing
  
• The whole Stairway bit, and Plant getting 'emotional'
  
• Bonnie jumping out of her seat for the last 2 numbers
  
• Letterman 'hanging' with Page
  
• Yo Yo Ma grooving to Stairway
  

[robertoart]

Johnny Winter!

Now there is a White Bluesman (in his heyday) who could play it loud and mean.

Faster, tougher, more authentic, and more 'Heavy", than any Englishmen.

The real man's Stevie Ray Vaughan.

there's no shame in saluting late 60's early 70's Johnny Winter

It was the way you saluted him (for me, at least). I'll just leave it at that, as I think it's time for this discussion to go away.

Well let me unpack my post...

Johnny Winter. White Bluesman.

The young Johnny Winter is chaperoned into a Black club (total African American social situation) to see and meet BB King. BB King graciously greets the young Johnny Winter and lets him sit in and play the Blues (total African American musical situation).

Not dissimilar to the experiences of the slightly older Bloomfield, Mandel etc al. going into Black clubs ( more total African American social and music situations), to see and meet Muddy Waters etc. al., ......so the emergence of a nascent White American response to Black American Electric Blues.

Johnny Winter plays it loud and mean.

Johnny Winter learns the Blues language, and then plays it with a psychedelic/hard rock sound combined with a performative sense of danger and intensity that gets across to a White audience beginning to favour long improvised Blues Rock improvisation.

Faster.

Johnny Winter had incredible technical facility early on. He played fast and clean lines.

Tougher.

There was a genuine sense of hard edge or threat to Winter's music that seemed real enough. Perhaps a Texan thing. Canned Heat (with Al Wilson and Bob Hite) had a gentler Country Blues vibe.

More authentic, and 'Heavy", than any Englishmen.

Perhaps, because the English Blues players learnt the music from records, and didn't experience the corporeality of the music, or share in the wider American cultural dispersion, I've become less taken by British Blues-Rock, than by late 60's 70's American Blues-Rock. Maybe this is why I always preferred Coryell's musical legacy to McLaughlin. Coryell always seemed to have an American (and Black American) sound in his hands, brilliant and sometimes shambolic (and still brilliant), whereas McLaughlin seemed to always have (or be trying to convey) a sense of Platonic purity in his work, that seemed incredibly British/European. And insufferably pretentious at the same time. it even carried over into those awful synth guitar albums he made.

Although in balance , I have seen his This Is How I Do It dvd, and he does seem to have a cheeky twinkle in his eye, and the way he tells the story of going to see the 'Hendrix at Monterey' movie with Miles is hilarious.

The real man's Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Edited February 17, 2013 by freelancer

[robertoart]

And also, in all these various White American Blues bands or conglomerations/projects, I can't think of any Black American players that were from the same younger generation (on record at least) that seemed to be there side by side during that era. I'm aware of Phillip Wilson, but it seems very different to the cross-cultural bands and affiliations that occurred on the Jazz side of the street.

[danasgoodstuff]

And also, in all these various White American Blues bands or conglomerations/projects, I can't think of any Black American players that were from the same younger generation (on record at least) that seemed to be there side by side during that era. I'm aware of Phillip Wilson, but it seems very different to the cross-cultural bands and affiliations that occurred on the Jazz side of the street.

I guess it depends how you count generations, Sam Lay and Jerome Arnold were, I believe, just 7 & 6 years older than Butterfield...

Edited February 20, 2013 by danasgoodstuff

[robertoart]

And also, in all these various White American Blues bands or conglomerations/projects, I can't think of any Black American players that were from the same younger generation (on record at least) that seemed to be there side by side during that era. I'm aware of Phillip Wilson, but it seems very different to the cross-cultural bands and affiliations that occurred on the Jazz side of the street.

I guess it depends how you count generations, Sam Lay and Jerome Arnold were, I believe, just 7 & 6 years older than Butterfield...

Well, it's good to be proved wrong!

Here's an excellent interview with Sam Lay

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/sam-lay-profile-of-a-blues-drumming-legend/P2/