Keep Or Return?

[JSngry]

Ordered used Brubeck-smith Near Myth from an Amazon Seller, got Rafal Blechacz Sonatas (on DG) instead, and a new, sealed copy at that.

All I can get is a refund, and I have to pay return shipping at that.

Is this guy such a magnificent interpreter that I should just keep it, crack it open, and consider it a happy accident or is it not so great as to make no never-mind?

I'm not at all in the mood for having even more ultimately inconsequential material on my shelves, but I really don't like getting incorrect merchandise, and I really, really dislike having to leave the house and pay money to make up for somebody else's mistake, so...I'm weighing the options here. Serious recommendations will be seriously considered.

Thanks!

[A Lark Ascending]

How desperate are you to have approved interpretations?

If you like the composers/compositions keep it.

If they mean nothing to you, return it.

[JSngry]

Well, none of it really "means" anything to me, but there is a bit more personal inconvenience involved in returning the item than I'm ready to accept w/o any consideration, so if some people I trust say, "no, check it out, this guy really brings something special to it", then I'll be much more inclined to keep it than if the feedback runs towards "eh, just some guy keeping it propped up, nothing I'd get excited about", then, yeah, ok, I need that even less, then.

The only reason I'm even considering keeping it is because it's already here. I'd never have bought this one my own, ever, just because. Not at all looking for "approval", just suggestions from anybody who's familiar with the disc.

So with that in mind - have you heard the disc in question, and if so, would you care to offer your opinion of the performance?

[A Lark Ascending]

Trust the composer/composition.

There are differences in interpretation but classical connoisseurship greatly exaggerates these in order to establish pecking order debates ('classical connoisseur top trumps'). Gets to the point when establishing the pecking order of the interpreter becomes more important than the composer/composition (note those discs where the interpreter's name is in bigger type than the composer [a sure sign that you are in the world of bollocks]).

If it's a genre of music you don't have much interest in, do you really think some superior interpretation is going to transcend that? Only the music will do that.

Edited December 14, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[alankin]

If the seller screwed up, they should reimburse your return postage. If you don't want the CD, I would open a case with Amazon.

[Stefan Wood]

Pony up the return shipping -- the seller needs to refund your money anyways.

[J.A.W.]

The seller made a mistake, so according to Amazon Marketplace rules they have to reimburse return shipping. If they refuse, open a case with Amazon.

[MomsMobley]

Lark's reply is preposterous... If JSngry DID have an interest and "wanted to let the music speak for itself" he could READ the score and cut out the middlemen or women altogether.

INTERPRETATION IS EVERYTHING always, everywhere, though it'd take a FAR greater interpreter than Ralph "Bleh" Blechacz to make this program worthwhile.

Verdict: RETURN without hesitation... the ONLY disc this schmoe has made that's worth even a fraction of a second thought is the Debussy/Szymanowski program, and that only for the chance you'd appreciate some Szymanowski in your life, though even there I'd hep you to other solo piano compositions, both pre- & contemporary with Duke, Cecil, Dolphy et al, first.

Trust the composer/composition.

There are differences in interpretation but classical connoisseurship greatly exaggerates these in order to establish pecking order debates ('classical connoisseur top trumps'). Gets to the point when establishing the pecking order of the interpreter becomes more important than the composer/composition (note those discs where the interpreter's name is in bigger type than the composer [a sure sign that you are in the world of bollocks]).

If it's a genre of music you don't have much interest in, do you really think some superior interpretation is going to transcend that? Only the music will do that.

Edited December 14, 2012 by MomsMobley

[JSngry]

If it's a genre of music you don't have much interest in, do you really think some superior interpretation is going to transcend that?

I do consider that a possibility, yes. It's happened before.

[jazzbo]

Hey it's Christmas time. Keep it around as a potential last minute gift to someone. It's nice to have something like that in reserve.

[JSngry]

Verdict: RETURN without hesitation... the ONLY disc this schmoe has made that would be worth even a fraction of a second thought is the Debussy/Szymanowski one, and that for the chance you would appreciate some Szymanowski in your life though even there I imagine a thoughtful selection of Duke, Cecil and Dolphy antecedents would be more useful.

Thanks, this is the kind of input I was looking for. Subjective but informed.

Hey it's Christmas time. Keep it around as a potential last minute gift to someone. It's nice to have something like that in reserve.

Well, there's that too!

Edited December 14, 2012 by JSngry

[A Lark Ascending]

Trust the composer and the composition.

The rest is about selling records.

The medium is not the message.

[paul secor]

Trust the composer and the composition.

The rest is about selling records.

The medium is not the message.

Then a question for you. Why do you show us photo of individual recordings with performers, conductors included? Why not just post the name of the composer and the composition?

[J.A.W.]

Trust the composer and the composition.

The rest is about selling records.

The medium is not the message.

Then a question for you. Why do you show us photo of individual recordings with performers, conductors included? Why not just post the name of the composer and the composition?

I was wondering about that too. Sorry Bev, but I agree with MomsMobley, interpretation is everything. What you're saying is so absurd that I can hardly believe you're really being serious about this.

Edited December 14, 2012 by J.A.W.

[JSngry]

A composition is a recipe - delicious ingredients in intriguing combinations and proportions do not result in uniformly tastily prepared final dishes.

Not just knowing the details of the ingredients, but being able to extract the most flavor out of them, that's where interpretation comes in. The same recipe can - and often does - get two totally different results. Thus the importance of interpretation, and thus the interest in "how did you like it" feedback.

Sure, at some point a pot roast is a pot roast is a pot roast, and if you like pot roast, yeah, unless it's totally botched, go ahead and eat it. But by the same token, if you've had enough pot roasts for it to not be that big of a deal that it's just a pot roast, then, yeah, how's this one? Because, you can get average - or even "pretty good" - pot roast just about anywhere, ya' know, so you don't really want any more of that.

And of course, that's all subjective. But subjectivity is what's being sought here, because if I'm going to go out for pot roast, I want to have a good feeling about the possibility that it'll be worth my time. Especially since my wife can wail on some pot roast. And she's a vegetarian!

And so far, I've got one "this guy's just a propper-upper" and one "might be useful as a re-gift". Anybody else got anything to say about the performer/performance itself instead of just proper retail etiquette and/or what is or isn't the proper consideration of interpretation?

Please?

[Chuck Nessa]

Trust the composer and the composition.

The rest is about selling records.

The medium is not the message.

This is as silly as it gets. Seems to be an excuse for inaction or lack of study.

[A Lark Ascending]

Of course I exaggerate.

It's just that listening to classical music is so often portrayed as being all about famous maestros. Buy a box of Schnabel or Gould and get instant Wine Club membership.

That someone who has listened for years can hear differences and will have preferences goes without saying.

Just seems extraordinary to me that so much discussion seems to be of the 'whose best?' variety and so little about what makes the music so extraordinary, exciting, engaging etc.

Then a question for you. Why do you show us photo of individual recordings with performers, conductors included? Why not just post the name of the composer and the composition?

Because I like the pictures on the sleeves. I'm as partial to a bit of packaging as the next man (I even make covers for my CD-Rs from downloads based on the original sleeve!). When I post from my Iphone and it's too fiddly to put up a picture all you do get is the composer and composition.

This is as silly as it gets. Seems to be an excuse for inaction or lack of study.

I'm not a musician, musicologist, music student or music critic. Why do I need to study music? I play it because I find immense pleasure in it. I have quite enough 'study' tied up in the day job.

Edited December 15, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[A Lark Ascending]

And so far, I've got one "this guy's just a propper-upper" and one "might be useful as a re-gift". Anybody else got anything to say about the performer/performance itself instead of just proper retail etiquette and/or what is or isn't the proper consideration of interpretation?

Then you need to taste Schlumpferling's 1938 Vienna pot roast (NOT his Berlin 1938, of course!). Sublime. No pot roasts compare.

[JSngry]

What label is ti on, and what time is dinner?

[A Lark Ascending]

You can only get it in that 356 CD 'The Great Artistes' box put out by Epicure. Be warned, the gravy leaks from the packaging.

[Peter Friedman]

After reading all these comments it strikes me that the 2 opposite points of view are both partially correct.

From my perspective, yes interpretation certainly does matter, but is by no means everything. A marvelous

Interpretation of a composition one does not find interesting, or dislikes is of no value to the listener.

To follow up on Jim's food analogy, an important question is why do I select a rib steak to purchase at the market

rather than a strip steak. And don't forget the quality of the meat itself, is it choice or prime cut of meat.

The interpretation of Beethoven's piano sonatas is very important and should be discussed, but there is almost

no discussion of (for example) which Beethoven sonatas one finds most interesting, rewarding, pleasing, etc.

Isn't it equally important to discuss both which compositions by Chopin are my favorites, AND which pianists are my favorite

performers of those compositions?

[JSngry]

It dawns on me (finally) that the takeaway from this thread is that, other than Moms, nobody's familiar enough with either the pianist or the recording to suggest yay or nay.

Hardly a ringing endorsement, then!

[paul secor]

After reading all these comments it strikes me that the 2 opposite points of view are both partially correct.

From my perspective, yes interpretation certainly does matter, but is by no means everything. A marvelous

Interpretation of a composition one does not find interesting, or dislikes is of no value to the listener.

To follow up on Jim's food analogy, an important question is why do I select a rib steak to purchase at the market

rather than a strip steak. And don't forget the quality of the meat itself, is it choice or prime cut of meat.

The interpretation of Beethoven's piano sonatas is very important and should be discussed, but there is almost

no discussion of (for example) which Beethoven sonatas one finds most interesting, rewarding, pleasing, etc.

Isn't it equally important to discuss both which compositions by Chopin are my favorites, AND which pianists are my favorite

performers of those compositions?

Good points, Peter. Might be a good thread for you to initiate.

[JSngry]

From my perspective, yes interpretation certainly does matter, but is by no means everything. A marvelous

Interpretation of a composition one does not find interesting, or dislikes is of no value to the listener.

There's a lot of truth in that, but I do find it possible for an interpretation to "bring out" aspects of a composition in such a way that what I once found wholly/largely uninteresting now piques moments of interest. May or may not change my ultimate opinion of the piece, but it'll also give me a better idea of why I dislike it because X, even though Y & Z.

[A Lark Ascending]

From my perspective, yes interpretation certainly does matter, but is by no means everything. A marvelous

Interpretation of a composition one does not find interesting, or dislikes is of no value to the listener.

There's a lot of truth in that, but I do find it possible for an interpretation to "bring out" aspects of a composition in such a way that what I once found wholly/largely uninteresting now piques moments of interest. May or may not change my ultimate opinion of the piece, but it'll also give me a better idea of why I dislike it because X, even though Y & Z.

Firstly, Peter puts it perfectly.

Secondly, I agree with your last point, Jim. I too have heard versions of pieces I've previously been indifferent to that have opened them to me.

My irritations comes when it becomes primarily about the performer rather than the music. Schnabel's Beethoven rather than Beethoven's X Sonata as played by Schnabel. And it saddens me to see new listeners sucked into this. Get to know the music and, over time, if you like it enough and want to hear other versions then you might just gain pleasure or instruction by hearing those differing interpretations.

But classical music is frequently sold as if those maestro interpretations are what it is really about. Just buy a box of Gould and swoon under his supreme artistry. You're just not going to hear that unless you spent some time listening to the alternatives. But the record company blurb promises you instant magic.

It's not hard to see why. Most classical listeners don't venture much beyond a 1700-early 20thC timespan (nothing wrong with that) so there's a marketing need to find a way to sell the same pieces again and again. The maestro myth does that.

This is not a beef specific to this site - classical music sites are far worse. Endless 'who's best?' debates; very little discussion of the music itself.

Edited December 15, 2012 by A Lark Ascending