Solar Records (Spain) - legit label? New Pacific Jazz reissue out

[Daniel A]

I just discovered that the Bud Shank/Clare Fischer Pacific Jazz albums 'Bossa Nova Jazz Samba' and 'Brasamba' (long awaited on CD) are being reissued this month on Solar Records. I've never heard of that label but I'm a bit suspiscious, though it does not seem to originate from the Fresh Sound mold. Any information would be appreciated.

http://www.jazzmesse...28&languageId=2

This edition contains the complete original 1962 albums Bossa Nova Jazz Samba (Pacific Jazz PJ ST58), and Brasamba! (Pacific Jazz PJ ST64), both of which feature Bud Shank and Clare Fischer playing bossa nova songs and jazz standards with a bossa nova flavor (the second LP also includes guitarist Joe Pass). These two albums had never been previously issued on CD in their complete form and with their original track order. The opening and closing songs from the second LP appear here on CD for the first time ever. As a bonus, four Brazilian instrumental songs from an LP by Cal Tjader, with Clare Fischer as pianist and arranger. Also recorded in 1962, the session includes the very first version of Fisher’s “Elizete”.

Other releases from the label include such diverse artists as Sun Ra and Oscar Peterson. I somehow get the impression that it is affiliated with the Jazz Messengers store in Barcelona (which is a very nice jazz store).

Edited December 9, 2012 by Daniel A

[JSngry]

Looking at their catalog, I'm pretty sure they're not licensing through what by American standards (and I know, doesn't apply in Eurospainope, etc.,) would be considered "legitimate channels". Too many live bootlegs and other anomalies for that.

For example:

Somewhere, I seem to remember something about Pujol having a Barcelona connection, family, business, both? Not that he's the only one who does (or has done) things like this.

[J.A.W.]

This is another one of those European public-domain labels that have no access to original sources like mastertapes.

Other releases from the label include such diverse artists as Sun Ra and Oscar Peterson. I somehow get the impression that it is affiliated with the Jazz Messengers store in Barcelona (which is a very nice jazz store).

The Jazz Messengers store sells both official (including Mosaic sets) and European public-domain releases.

Edited December 8, 2012 by J.A.W.

[Daniel A]

Thanks, Jim and Hans. They (Solar) seem to like living on the edge as there's material from as late as 1963. Anyway, I'll keep on waiting for a decent LP copy of Brasamba to turn up.

[Big Beat Steve]

As for this being legit or not, that discussion is pretty pointless within Europe. Even with the current revamping of the P.D. laws here in Europe where they intend to extend copyright protection beyond the current 50-year P.D. limit (thanks Paul McCartney and Cliff Richard - as if those journeyman session men allegedly involved in pop hits were to benefit from this copyright extension to any significant degree ...), if you read the contents of the new rules closer you will find that the present situation remains the way it is now even after this new EU legislation comes into force: What has been in the P.D. at the time the law becomes effective remains there, but what has NOT YET been in the P.D. will be protected by the new cutoff date (70 years instead of 50 IIRC). So nothing changes for stuff first released (recorded?) up to (currently) late 1962.

As for the 1963 material in the Solar catalog, it appears they are really going far out on a limb and probably are living on the premise of "who'd care enough to sue them". So if they come under fire there they don't deserve any better.

As for earlier material, no problem IMO as long as it concerns European sales. After all, why should a P.D. limit of 50 years be any less lawful than a 70-year P.D. limit? Or to put it another way, why should a 1941 recording that legally is in the P.D. in the US be any more legal than a 1961 recording that CURRENTLY legally is in the P.D. in Europe as long as the buyers are within the respective jurisdiction?

The shady side about all this P.D. business IMO is not so much the P.D. aspect but stealing previous (recent!) remasterings done by others who put a lot of effort into their own reissues (regardless of whether done by majors or indies). It cannot be a total coincidence if a given recording is reissued for the first time in a long time and then all of a sudden the same reissue crops up on several other P.D. labels as well, nor can it be a coincidence if a given selection of tracks is reissued on a certain specific theme of music and then another packaging on the same theme comes up with largely the same selection of tracks.

So I'd not so much be wary about allegedly too "recent" 50-year P.D. cutoff dates (particularly if it concerns stuff that NOBODY has touched reissue-wise anywhere else in recent decades) but about re-reissues of material that very recently has already been reissued elsewhere. Don't know where to classify the abovementioned PJ items in this respect, though.

As for U.S. buyers, decide for yourselves and judge your U.S. resellers for yourselves and act as you feel comfortable with.

BTW, what's the secret about Pujol having a "Barcelona connection"? That's where he is. See the fine print on any Fresh Sound CD. The Jazzmessengers site CLAIMS that Solar is a French label, BTW.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Big Beat Steve

[king ubu]

Don't know where to classify the abovementioned PJ items in this respect, though.

One possible source might be a Fresh Sound reissue (Ubatuqui label, to be exact - don't know if it makes a difference), funnily. That one's a 2CD set titled "Bossa Nova Years" and attributed to Bud Shank only. Not sure if a link is okay or not so go look yourself please.

Other than that, I think by now I fully agree with what you say, Steve! Though it still pisses me off to see all the PD discs of albums readily available from the source such as "Mingus Ah Um" or "Time Out" in local stores. What pisses me off there though isn't the existance of these PD reissues but rather the lack of awareness from the people doing the buying for those stores. One of the points why I tend to say "good riddance" and not shed too many tears when another one shuts down.

[J.A.W.]

The shady side about all this P.D. business IMO is not so much the P.D. aspect but stealing previous (recent!) remasterings done by others who put a lot of effort into their own reissues (regardless of whether done by majors or indies). It cannot be a total coincidence if a given recording is reissued for the first time in a long time and then all of a sudden the same reissue crops up on several other P.D. labels as well, nor can it be a coincidence if a given selection of tracks is reissued on a certain specific theme of music and then another packaging on the same theme comes up with largely the same selection of tracks.

So I'd not so much be wary about allegedly too "recent" 50-year P.D. cutoff dates (particularly if it concerns stuff that NOBODY has touched reissue-wise anywhere else in recent decades) but about re-reissues of material that very recently has already been reissued elsewhere. Don't know where to classify the abovementioned PJ items in this respect, though.

Couldn't agree more; that's also my main objection, as I've said ad nauseam on this board.

Edited December 9, 2012 by J.A.W.

[sonnymax]

The Jazzmessengers site CLAIMS that Solar is a French label, BTW.

Although distributed by a French company, Harmonia Mundi, Solar Records is, in fact, a Spanish outfit located in Barcelona.

[jazzbo]

It used to bother me that early material would come out on these PD labels and would cause the original releasers of the material to not give us the material in more legitimate, better sounding, better annotated form.

But over time I've come to realize the majors just aren't interested in giving us this stuff, period.

[Daniel A]

I agree with just about everything that has been said above. I was hoping that, somehow, original tapes had been used for this reissue. If the source is indeed the Ubatuqui release I'd not count on that, and if it's not it would have to be dubbed from an LP. I'd rather do my own needle drops than buy someone else's.

I wonder if the tapes still exist. Last time they would have been in use to my knowledge were for the ugly cover Liberty reissue series from around 1980:

I'm eagerly awaiting James Harrod's book on PJ.

[Clunky]

I agree with just about everything that has been said above. I was hoping that, somehow, original tapes had been used for this reissue. If the source is indeed the Ubatuqui release I'd not count on that, and if it's not it would have to be dubbed from an LP. I'd rather do my own needle drops than buy someone else's.

I wonder if the tapes still exist. Last time they would have been in use to my knowledge were for the ugly cover Liberty reissue series from around 1980:

I'm eagerly awaiting James Harrod's book on PJ.

I've got this issue and it sounds just fine. Wasn't expensive at all , £5 I think from Jazz House Records.

[mikeweil]

I just discovered that the Bud Shank/Clare Fischer Pacific Jazz albums 'Bossa Nova Jazz Samba' and 'Brasamba' (long awaited on CD) are being reissued this month on Solar Records. I've never heard of that label but I'm a bit suspiscious, though it does not seem to originate from the Fresh Sound mold. Any information would be appreciated.

http://www.jazzmesse...28&languageId=2

This edition contains the complete original 1962 albums Bossa Nova Jazz Samba (Pacific Jazz PJ ST58), and Brasamba! (Pacific Jazz PJ ST64), both of which feature Bud Shank and Clare Fischer playing bossa nova songs and jazz standards with a bossa nova flavor (the second LP also includes guitarist Joe Pass). These two albums had never been previously issued on CD in their complete form and with their original track order. The opening and closing songs from the second LP appear here on CD for the first time ever. As a bonus, four Brazilian instrumental songs from an LP by Cal Tjader, with Clare Fischer as pianist and arranger. Also recorded in 1962, the session includes the very first version of Fisher’s “Elizete”.

The four bonus tracks are from Cal Tjader's Verve LP "Plays the Contemporary Music of Mexico and Brazil" - four of the six Brazilian tracks.

Edited December 9, 2012 by mikeweil

[felser]

I have some sets on this label and am very happy with them.

[Bluesnik]

I just discovered that the Bud Shank/Clare Fischer Pacific Jazz albums 'Bossa Nova Jazz Samba' and 'Brasamba' (long awaited on CD) are being reissued this month on Solar Records.

I somehow get the impression that it is affiliated with the Jazz Messengers store in Barcelona (which is a very nice jazz store).

Good to hear that Brasamba is getting a reissue. I have it but merely as a collection of ones and zeroes. And I have it labelled as Brazil, music I like a lot, as it is a bit samba like. And if it's related to Jazz Messengers, which IS a very good shop, it's Freshsound, you can be sure.

[AllenLowe]

sorry, but Brasamba sounds like something out of a Seinfeld episode.

[king ubu]

sorry, but Brasamba sounds like something out of a Seinfeld episode.

But, but, you forget that Bud Shank was the first jazz flautist and the first to integrate bossa and jazz - and most surely the one with the largest Porsche collection, too

[Chuck Nessa]

:-(

[JSngry]

Wayman Carver would like to make a statement for the record, please...

[Big Beat Steve]

Wayman Carver would like to make a statement for the record, please...

+1

:tup

[king ubu]

Hey, Shank is very much alright with me as a musician ... don't care about the other bull.

His Pacific Jazz quartet (with Williamson, then Billy Bean) and later quintet or sextet albums (with Bob Cooper, Carmell Jones) are mighty fine! Not so sure about the Shank/Cooper flute/oboe stuff, but I do enjoy it mostly, just not as much as the alto Shank.

As for his Latin stuff, I've never felt a need to explore that beyond his collaborations with Laurindo Almeida (whom I enjoy, also with Getz, I think the Getz/Almeida album is one of the finest of Getz' bossa efforts).

[EKE BBB]

Solar Records is part of the Definitive/Disconforme emporium, which is a DIFFERENT ONE THAN the Fresh Sound Records group.

[bichos]

Wayman Carver would like to make a statement for the record, please...

alberto socarras, too (he was the first!)

keep boppin´

marcel

[mjzee]

Solar Records is part of the Definitive/Disconforme emporium, which is a DIFFERENT ONE THAN the Fresh Sound Records group.

Have they ever competed, i.e., released the same album?

[Daniel A]

And if not, are they both part of a bigger, secret organisation? Dan Brown should perhaps write a book about it.

[brownie]

Solar Records is part of the Definitive/Disconforme emporium, which is a DIFFERENT ONE THAN the Fresh Sound Records group.

Have they ever competed, i.e., released the same album?

From FreshSound

http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/search.php?artist_string=irene+kral&method=by_artist&action=search&artist_id=

From Solar