BFT 105 Discussion Thread

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Thanks Jim. I've never liked Sarah Vaughn much but the way she sings the song, it does make sense as a song, rather than as an original Jug head

MG

[JSngry]

FWIW, I first hear Jug's version on a Chess cassette of an album called Jug And Sonny, just a cassette w/no writer's credits (and the intro cut off!). Having never heard the tune before that, I thought it was an original too. I think it it was a Vaughan version w/Clifford Brown where I first realized otherwise.

so, yeah. It's that type of a song.

[felser]

1951- the year of Jug's recording (Sassy indeed! Whatever overwrought (or not) divadom she got into later on, this period here makes all that stuff forgiven, unconditionally)

Totally agree with that. Her singing in those early years was a thing of wonder and beauty.

Edited December 5, 2012 by felser

[JSngry]

And full of attitude. The good kind!

Anybody - especially a woman, in that time, place, and situation - who could hang with that Eckstine crew, hey...you had to have had all kinds of skills.

[Big Al]

Was listening to the BFT on the drive home tonight and it occurred to me that the performer of track 5 is neither old, nor Jewish, nor (and this is what makes this track so funny) pale in complexion.

RIGHT???

[JSngry]

Probably not old (at the time), don't know about the other two (although given the time/place of the work's creation, the odds of the guy being Jewish are probably better than him being pale of complexion. But by how much, I can't say). Still, that's a definite 1-3, .333, and that, sir, calls for 4 years with a 2 year renewable option. Tell your agent!

BTW - how did the thing work for you in the car? I really did work out the final selection/sequence while driving, wanted it to work as a drive mix as well as an at home one. Then again, my wife gets nervous with how I drive, but she liked the music. Go figure.

[Big Al]

Is it Sammy Davis Jr then?

Worked beautifully in the car, especially tracks 7 & 8. GREAT driving music!!!

Edited December 5, 2012 by Big Al

[JSngry]

Not Sammy, no. The guy was unknown when he di it, and really still is, But the group that he did it for/with represents an early version of a comedy brand name that is now very well known.

Edited December 5, 2012 by JSngry

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Not the Goons, however

MG

[Big Al]

I was also thinking of that Spike Lee movie ("Bamboozled?"), something like that.

[JSngry]

Roughly a generation prior to Spike Lee (and an entirely different cultural scene), and most likely meant as a wicked satire of show-business callowness than of racial politics, but coming from a circle of talent (and let that serve as a hint...) whose eyes and ears were often, at the time, every bit as attuned to the absurdities and nuances of their milieu as Lee was to his.

[felser]

Lenny Bruce - if it isn't, it should be.

Edited December 6, 2012 by felser

[JSngry]

Post-Bruce...and not a solo act. In fact, this might be the only monologue of his on record. More of a writer, and in a group of writers/performers that went on to produce some serious comedic talent (and stars). And he was not "well known" there either - or now. But the collective talent, yes, very well-known.

[felser]

The clue told me SCTV, and then a google on that told me Martin Short ("Irving Cohen").

[JSngry]

Man, I hate to be a buzzkill, but...not SCTV/Short...but that's a very good guess!

Let's try this - go to SCTV's more or less immediate (and still active) television "predecessor", and then go back one step from there.

[Big Al]

Firesign Theater? I was actually gonna guess this if my non-white/Sammy Davis path didn't pan out.

[JSngry]

Not Firesign, although, like Firesign, this cast of characters also had a syndicated radio show (from which this monologue was taken).

[felser]

National Lampoon Radio Hour - show #5, December 15, 1973 "The Show Must Go On".. Don't know who the specific person was. Chevy Chase, John Belushi, and others come from NLRH before going on to SNL. I remember the great bit about the K-Tel offer to send you "ever record ever made" and a wonderful Bob Dylan "Fabulous Sixties" K-tel offer ("Time for these boot heels to be wonderin, ".

[JSngry]

Don't know if you've got the right bit or not, it's called something else on the record, but otherwise, YES!

[JSngry]

Here's another bit from NLRH:

Cast = Bob Perry, Joseph O'Flaherty, Gilda Radner, John Belushi, Harold Ramis and Brian Doyle- Murray.

[JSngry]

And of course, this classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDOBMz2TGi8

Tony Hendra, Melissa Manchester

The Bob Dylan thing that Felser mentions? That was Christopher Guest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pMYFc9N0gs

So, yeah, NLRH is fairly looked upon as an embyonic SNL...remember how Michael O'Donahue would show up on SNL every so often and go all the way off-the-wall?

[jeffcrom]

Okay, JSngry sent me the disc to upload, and when I stuck it in my computer's disc drive, all the titles and artists came up for my edification. At my age, I forgot about half of them within two minutes, but I won't be identifying anyone in my comments. That's usually not the most interesting aspect to these monthly exercises, anyway.

I've participated in most of the blindfold tests in the three and 3/4 years I've been here, and this was probably the most unusual. That's a good thing.

In one case I preferred to comment on an imaginary track in my head rather than what I heard and tried without success to erase from my brain cells.

1. A hoot. Very cool that you could hear something like this on AM radio. I can’t understand many of the words, but it sounds like they’re promoting cholesterol!

2. This one really grew on me as I listened and relistened to this BFT. I was particularly impressed with the saxophonist – I’ve got no idea whether he’s part of the singer’s regular band, a studio gunslinger, or a recognized jazz soloist. But he/she brought passion and imagination to what could have been just another day at work to collect a paycheck.

3. How’d you get one of my old girlfriends to write a song? Maybe a little less distinctive than the previous track, but still very nice. And I like me some analog synth.

4. I love this, not least because it’s so not-slick. The guitarist’s time is all over the place (particularly when he plays lots of notes), the saxes aren’t in tune, the mix is rough, and there’s no real ending – it just kind of drifts off. I chalk up all of those things to the positive side of the board. I thought of Ronnie Cuber during the bari solo, but don’t really know if it’s him. A fun track.

5. Lots of problems here. The trombonist shouldn’t have tried to play the head if he really didn’t know it. The bassist and pianist don’t agree on the chords of the bridge. And the rhythm section isn’t in sync – you can play on the front side of the beat, lay back a little, or play right on top of the beat, but the drummer and the bassist have to feel it the same way. Otherwise, it’s uncomfortable, like here.

On the plus side, the solos are good – I particularly like the tenor player.

6. Nice. The ensemble playing is magnificent – these are musicians. When JSngry sent me the disc to upload, he referred to this track: “…the Nat Cole track (you’ll know it because it’s the one with Nat Cole).”

7. Everybody’s tastes/ears are different, but this was my least favorite of the female vocals in this set. I really didn’t like the background vocals. But again, this could have been produced very slickly, but it also turned out anti-slick.

8. I’m such an ignoramus when it comes to Latin music. I don’t know enough to say anything about this except that I like it – very hot rhythm section. Good flute and trumpet solos, and better-than-good tenor solo, with a very cool overblown entrance.

9. Hey, I’d buy a Coke from them.

10. “You’re not the kind of boy for a girl like me.” I first heard this song in Sarah Vaughan’s great Musicraft version. The fine tenor sax player here has surely been identified by now. I like all sorts of music, but when I hear a player swinging like this, everything else disappears for awhile, and this seems like the pinnacle of mankind’s musical achievements.

As I listened to this, I flashed on Steve Lacy’s tune “Duck” (aka “The New Duck” “Swiss Duck,” etc.). That piece is “about” different ways of attacking a note. (I’ve never liked that word for starting a note on a wind instrument.) Our tenor soloist here has mastering an incredible range of attacks – he’s a total master of the part of saxophone technique concerned with the relationship between the tongue and the reed.

11. I like me some wah-wah and some overdriven electric piano. Don’t much like the folksy lyrics. And the bass solo made me a little seasick, with all those sliding glissandos. But I liked everything else. Of its time, but there’s nothing wrong with that.

12. Thanks for this one. I had never understood Lester Young’s comparison of this singer to Bessie Smith (in that famous Chris Albertson interview) until hearing this. To me, she’s more like a cross between Dinah Washington and Brenda Lee, but still, I see what he meant.

13. “Please let me encourage you to listen to new music all the time, so that we may keep pace with the advances in music in the same way that we follow the exploits of our scientists….” To paraphrase a Randy Newman lyric, if Stan Kenton were alive today he’d be rolling around in his grave.

14. To me, this one’s all about the harmony. Simple, almost predictable chord changes – that just work. A nice ending to a very cool BFT.

Edited December 7, 2012 by jeffcrom

[JSngry]

Okay, JSngry sent me the disc to upload, and when I stuck it in my computer's disc drive, all the titles and artists came up for my edification. At my age, I forgot about half of them within two minutes, but I won't be identifying anyone in my comments. That's usually not the most interesting aspect to these monthly exercises, anyway.

I've participated in most of the blindfold tests in the three and 3/4 years I've been here, and this was probably the most unusual. That's a good thing.

In one case I preferred to comment on an imaginary track in my head rather than what I heard and tried without success to erase from my brain cells.

Please post that in the What Ae You Listening To Now Thread so I can hear it too!

1. A hoot. Very cool that you could hear something like this on AM radio. I can’t understand many of the words, but it sounds like they’re promoting cholesterol!

Actually, I used to hear it every morning on the Today show!

2. This one really grew on me as I listened and relistened to this BFT. I was particularly impressed with the saxophonist – I’ve got no idea whether he’s part of the singer’s regular band, a studio gunslinger, or a recognized jazz soloist. But he/she brought passion and imagination to what could have been just another day at work to collect a paycheck.

The singer doesn't really have a regular band, just a revolving cast-ish pool of player' she's able to call upon. The saxophonist is a recognized jazz soloist on today's scene, not a "big name", but definitely has a resume. And, yes, passion and imagination are brought to the situation here, which is one of the enduring quality's of the singer's catalog - she wants that type of thing.

3. How’d you get one of my old girlfriends to write a song?

You know how old girlfriends are - they don't die, they just keep remembering...

Maybe a little less distinctive than the previous track, but still very nice. And I like me some analog synth.

I like me some Chuck Rainey too! And some Harvey Mason (when he locks in with Chuck Rainey like he does here!)!

4. I love this, not least because it’s so not-slick. The guitarist’s time is all over the place (particularly when he plays lots of notes), the saxes aren’t in tune, the mix is rough, and there’s no real ending – it just kind of drifts off. I chalk up all of those things to the positive side of the board. I thought of Ronnie Cuber during the bari solo, but don’t really know if it’s him. A fun track.

This tune has yet to be even remotely identified! It seems to be sort of an impromptu studio jam on what is otherwise a pretty controlled-environment album (and I mean that in the good way).

5. Lots of problems here. The trombonist shouldn’t have tried to play the head if he really didn’t know it. The bassist and pianist don’t agree on the chords of the bridge. And the rhythm section isn’t in sync – you can play on the front side of the beat, lay back a little, or play right on top of the beat, but the drummer and the bassist have to feel it the same way. Otherwise, it’s uncomfortable, like here.

On the plus side, the solos are good – I particularly like the tenor player.

I swear to god, that sounds like a comment that I once wrote about one track on some older BFT, but a rudimentary search for those phrases turns up nothing. So, the tune you think is imaginary must be real enough that I think I'm imagining that I've already heard it.

I think we're headed towards new ground here - a BFT of all imaginary imagined tunes. Let's see the RIAA deal with THAT!

6. Nice. The ensemble playing is magnificent – these are musicians. When JSngry sent me the disc to upload, he referred to this track: “…the Nat Cole track (you’ll know it because it’s the one with Nat Cole).”

And special kudos tho the bari player, eh? BOTTOM!

7. Everybody’s tastes/ears are different, but this was my least favorite of the female vocals in this set. I really didn’t like the background vocals. But again, this could have been produced very slickly, but it also turned out anti-slick.

What caught my ear on the background vocals was at the end of the second chorus into the bridge where it turned into a McCoy Tyner record for a quick second or two. If we're talking about choices that can be made on a "pop record", that would be one I'd like to be surprised by as often as possible, at least for now!

8. I’m such an ignoramus when it comes to Latin music. I don’t know enough to say anything about this except that I like it – very hot rhythm section. Good flute and trumpet solos, and better-than-good tenor solo, with a very cool overblown entrance.

Yeah, if you ever decide to listen to this cut for, like, a few days in a row non-stop (don't laugh...), the various details of the rhythm section reveal themselves in a very pleasant manner.

9. Hey, I’d buy a Coke from them.

As would we all, no doubt. But - if Ray's handling the money, COUNT THE CHANGE.

10. “You’re not the kind of boy for a girl like me.” I first heard this song in Sarah Vaughan’s great Musicraft version. The fine tenor sax player here has surely been identified by now. I like all sorts of music, but when I hear a player swinging like this, everything else disappears for awhile, and this seems like the pinnacle of mankind’s musical achievements.

As I listened to this, I flashed on Steve Lacy’s tune “Duck” (aka “The New Duck” “Swiss Duck,” etc.). That piece is “about” different ways of attacking a note. (I’ve never liked that word for starting a note on a wind instrument.) Our tenor soloist here has mastering an incredible range of attacks – he’s a total master of the part of saxophone technique concerned with the relationship between the tongue and the reed.

Exactly. When people talk about players having a "vocal" sound, they usually refer to things like timbre, vibrato, etc. But not always articulation. And when I stater to really get into singers, that was the thing that began to jump out at me, all the different options of articulating any give syllable that a singer has, and how different singers make different choices. And when you start hearing that and bring it back to an instrument, all of a sudden, a lot of otherwise outstanding players seem really limited in that regard. But then you hear somebody like this guy, and yeah, that's how you do it, and that's why you do it, and it's something you can bring to any kind of music where speaking in your own voice is called for. Have a real VOICE of a voice, ya' know?

11. I like me some wah-wah and some overdriven electric piano. Don’t much like the folksy lyrics. And the bass solo made me a little seasick, with all those sliding glissandos. But I liked everything else. Of its time, but there’s nothing wrong with that.

How about fuzz-vibes? Do you like you some fuzz-vibes too? I do! And I'll freely stipulate that this whole cut, all of it, is just plain goofy and/or stoned, and yeah, that's what makes it so much of its time.

But just wait until you find out what it is (if this is one of the ones you either don't remember or already know)...

12. Thanks for this one. I had never understood Lester Young’s comparison of this singer to Bessie Smith (in that famous Chris Albertson interview) until hearing this. To me, she’s more like a cross between Dinah Washington and Brenda Lee, but still, I see what he meant.

Dinah Washington & Brenda Lee, eh? I've strongly heard the former, but never considered the latter because of the age difference, but I do see a certain similarity now that you mention it.

Actually, this singer has more "jazz cred" than is generally recognized, although when you sing crap like "Wheel Of Fortune" and get a life's career out of doing so, hey...shit lands where it lands, right? Still, those are career choices and not necessarily talent determinants.

And oh, just as a reminder to all - there is a connection, a pretty direct connection, actually, between this track and the one before it!

13. “Please let me encourage you to listen to new music all the time, so that we may keep pace with the advances in music in the same way that we follow the exploits of our scientists….” To paraphrase a Randy Newman lyric, if Stan Kenton were alive today he’d be rolling around in his grave.

Why? To muster the energy to say these words? Again? Probably so! Stan gonna Stan, always!

14. To me, this one’s all about the harmony. Simple, almost predictable chord changes – that just work. A nice ending to a very cool BFT.

And how about that tempo! And how about that tenorist's vocal quality! Yes to all of it! YES!

And - thank you for participation, your responses, and for your assistance. It's a pleasure to share some of my enjoyments with somebody such as yourself, who's shared so much of your enjoyments with us here.

Is that entertainment? I would hope so!

Edited December 7, 2012 by JSngry

[jeffcrom]

I think we're headed towards new ground here - a BFT of all imaginary imagined tunes. Let's see the RIAA deal with THAT!

What a great idea! I've always wanted to play a game of Scrabble using words which don't exist, but which sound real. And you would have to come up with a plausible definition.

13. “Please let me encourage you to listen to new music all the time, so that we may keep pace with the advances in music in the same way that we follow the exploits of our scientists….” To paraphrase a Randy Newman lyric, if Stan Kenton were alive today he’d be rolling around in his grave.

Why? To muster the energy to say these words? Again? Probably so! Stan gonna Stan, always!

I was thinking that scientists were admired in his day, and he probably couldn't imagine otherwise. Now, in the U.S., at least.... Well, it's not the politics/religion section, so I'll stop there.

But I've always thought that Randy Newman line (from the song "The World Isn't Fair" - substitute "Karl Marx" for "Stan Kenton") was pretty funny.

[JSngry]

What a great idea! I've always wanted to play a game of Scrabble using words which don't exist, but which sound real. And you would have to come up with a plausible definition.

Not just that..but take notes, and compile a dictionary as you go along. After soon enough, new language. New language, new sounds, new sounds, new life. Or at least different.

Either way - best...Christmas....EVER!!!!