Modern/Avant New Releases: A running thread

[colinmce]

It did, took about 3 1/2 weeks. There's certainly no way they have all that stuff in one location, so I'm wondering if they have to get copies from the label first before sending an order.

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, I'd like to see one before I put down $25. I'm not sure that the QC on self-released LPs is as exacting as it is for, say, an Eremite or Three Lobed release. I've run into a lot of piss-poor pressings on new releases, and at this point things like getting and listening to test pressings and seeing a mockup of the artwork should be a no-brainer. Not so. I remember talking to Mary H. about one of her LP releases through Firehouse 12 and she said she liked the "crackle" of the vinyl. Get a new, sealed copy and lo and behold it's pressed with quite a bit of surface noise, visible marks in the vinyl, etc.

I have the "Illusionary Seas" double LP 45rpm, and it is clean and smooth and quiet, remarkably so really. Maybe the previous one had some noise, don't know as I don't have it, or maybe she was being facetious. But the larger point about new releases being variable in quality is well-taken. Cien Fuego has been very good, OTO, and I think Trost, also very good, just to mention a few.

Bought a Sonore LP and another one on Trost and they were severely scuffed/scratched from the heavy stock inner sleeves. I know a lot of stores don't even do returns on new vinyl anymore because there isn't any point to being liable for manufacturing defects or mishandling in the pressing plant/at the distributor. So I was out $40+. Never bought a Cien Fuego release as I have all that stuff on FMP vinyl.

Then again, I've had bad luck with CDs from Clean Feed and Not Two in particular - digital clicks, phantom skipping, all kinds of crap (in multiple CD players) - so the format doesn't really matter. Most of these labels put out too much stuff without paying attention to quality control.

Edited July 1, 2014 by clifford_thornton

[xybert]

Ken Vandermark's Side A has a new one on Not Two. This is the band with Havard Wilk and Chad Taylor, and it's a damn good one.

In related news, Joe McPhee's music is now part of the Catalytic Sound distro (Vandermark, Brotzmann, Gustafsson, PNL)

Keen for Side A... missed out on the first album on Clean Feed... probably available from other sources but i prefer to order directly from Clean Feed and it's been out of stock on the CF website for ages (which i presume means 'out of print' as i've never seen anything showing on their website as OOS come back in to stock).

[xybert]

yeah, I'd like to see one before I put down $25. I'm not sure that the QC on self-released LPs is as exacting as it is for, say, an Eremite or Three Lobed release. I've run into a lot of piss-poor pressings on new releases, and at this point things like getting and listening to test pressings and seeing a mockup of the artwork should be a no-brainer. Not so. I remember talking to Mary H. about one of her LP releases through Firehouse 12 and she said she liked the "crackle" of the vinyl. Get a new, sealed copy and lo and behold it's pressed with quite a bit of surface noise, visible marks in the vinyl, etc.

I have the "Illusionary Seas" double LP 45rpm, and it is clean and smooth and quiet, remarkably so really. Maybe the previous one had some noise, don't know as I don't have it, or maybe she was being facetious. But the larger point about new releases being variable in quality is well-taken. Cien Fuego has been very good, OTO, and I think Trost, also very good, just to mention a few.

Bought a Sonore LP and another one on Trost and they were severely scuffed/scratched from the heavy stock inner sleeves. I know a lot of stores don't even do returns on new vinyl anymore because there isn't any point to being liable for manufacturing defects or mishandling in the pressing plant/at the distributor. So I was out $40+. Never bought a Cien Fuego release as I have all that stuff on FMP vinyl.

Then again, I've had bad luck with CDs from Clean Feed and Not Two in particular - digital clicks, phantom skipping, all kinds of crap (in multiple CD players) - so the format doesn't really matter. Most of these labels put out too much stuff without paying attention to quality control.

Never had an issue with Clean Feed CDs (knock on wood) however the only Not Two CD i have (that i can think of) has a ton of digital clicks on it (Jim Hobbs' The Story of Mankind)

[jlhoots]

yeah, I'd like to see one before I put down $25. I'm not sure that the QC on self-released LPs is as exacting as it is for, say, an Eremite or Three Lobed release. I've run into a lot of piss-poor pressings on new releases, and at this point things like getting and listening to test pressings and seeing a mockup of the artwork should be a no-brainer. Not so. I remember talking to Mary H. about one of her LP releases through Firehouse 12 and she said she liked the "crackle" of the vinyl. Get a new, sealed copy and lo and behold it's pressed with quite a bit of surface noise, visible marks in the vinyl, etc.

I have the "Illusionary Seas" double LP 45rpm, and it is clean and smooth and quiet, remarkably so really. Maybe the previous one had some noise, don't know as I don't have it, or maybe she was being facetious. But the larger point about new releases being variable in quality is well-taken. Cien Fuego has been very good, OTO, and I think Trost, also very good, just to mention a few.

Bought a Sonore LP and another one on Trost and they were severely scuffed/scratched from the heavy stock inner sleeves. I know a lot of stores don't even do returns on new vinyl anymore because there isn't any point to being liable for manufacturing defects or mishandling in the pressing plant/at the distributor. So I was out $40+. Never bought a Cien Fuego release as I have all that stuff on FMP vinyl.

Then again, I've had bad luck with CDs from Clean Feed and Not Two in particular - digital clicks, phantom skipping, all kinds of crap (in multiple CD players) - so the format doesn't really matter. Most of these labels put out too much stuff without paying attention to quality control.

Never had an issue with Clean Feed CDs (knock on wood) however the only Not Two CD i have (that i can think of) has a ton of digital clicks on it (Jim Hobbs' The Story of Mankind)

I've had more trouble with "clicks",etc. on No Business CDs.

[danasgoodstuff]

What exactly is this Brotzman/Sharrock mentioned above?

[Leeway]

Got an email about a Bynum/Fujiwara LP, self-released in an edition of 249. $25, so I passed. Nice duo, though. Might spring for the DL sometime.

http://taylortomas.bandcamp.com/

I just saw you rpost. I bought it from Fujiwara at a concert his past weekend for $20. Very cool looking color vinyl. Oh....the music...yeah, it's pretty good....I played it a couple of times back to back and it grew on me.

[clifford_thornton]

What exactly is this Brotzman/Sharrock mentioned above?

Not the same music as was released on Fragments. More duos that I'd like to hear, though.

[Steve Reynolds]

I've never had any issues with skipping or clicking with any CDs - and my somewhat limited experience with Not Two is that the recording quality is as good or better on whole than any other current label including eremite, AUM and even hatology.

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, Eremite and AUM are different beasts. You do get the sense of "being there," warts and all.

[Chuck Nessa]

Ah yes, "warts and all" labels.

[David Ayers]

In related news, Joe McPhee's music is now part of the Catalytic Sound distro (Vandermark, Brotzmann, Gustafsson, PNL)

Good, though not good for me. I'm done on transatlantic ordering, high shipping, waiting and waiting, tax and duty....

Ah yes, "warts and all" labels.

Thankfully the warts can be assessed on Spotify...as can the desirability of hearing the material more than once....

[niels]

Maybe not quite the right topic to ask this question (as it is not about album releases), but I'm guessing I have the best chance of getting a good answer here;

I'm relatively "new" to the whole avant gare jazz scene, and so I wanted to educate myself somewhat on the history/culture/sociopolitical aspects of this music. I was browsing the internet for some good books and/or articles to read, and came up with two books which seems interesting to me:

George E.Lewis - A Power Stronger Than Itself

William Parker - Conversations (a book consisting of interviews Parker did with many musicians)

Are these good books for a "beginner", of are there better books to read. I would also love some tips/links to interesting articles that I can read online.

[paul secor]

The Lewis book is a very good one, with a lot of history/information. It's a bit flawed by being written in an academic style at times, though I didn't find it overly so. Hard to say whether it's a good book for a beginner. You might be introduced to names of musicians and to music you want check out, or you might be somewhat overwhelmed if you're unfamiliar with AACM.

I'd say that it can't hurt to try the book and then listen to some of the musicians discussed in it. You can always go back to the book when you're more familiar with the music and then it will probably have more meaning for you.

[jlhoots]

The Lewis book is a very good one, with a lot of history/information. It's a bit flawed by being written in an academic style at times, though I didn't find it overly so. Hard to say whether it's a good book for a beginner. You might be introduced to names of musicians and to music you want check out, or you might be somewhat overwhelmed if you're unfamiliar with AACM.

I'd say that it can't hurt to try the book and then listen to some of the musicians discussed in it. You can always go back to the book when you're more familiar with the music and then it will probably have more meaning for you.

I'll second what Paul said.

[clifford_thornton]

I'd recommend Valerie Wilmer's "As Serious As Your Life" and John Litweiler's "The Freedom Principle" for starters, as well as his bio on Ornette, Graham Lock's bio on Anthony Braxton, and John Szwed's book on Sun Ra.

A.B. Spellman's "Four Lives in the Bebop Business" is also well worth reading. Amiri Baraka's "Black Music" and Frank Kofsky's "Black Nationalism & The Revolution in Music" could follow, although they certainly have their issues. I find them both very interesting (and Baraka's 'fun') but YMMV.

Talk to musicians of an older generation when you can. Ask them questions.

Edited July 2, 2014 by clifford_thornton

[colinmce]

I'd second pretty much all of Clifford's recs. Four Lives, Black Music, As Serious, & Forces In Motion were especially huge for me. There is another one called This Is Our Music that has good info as well.

Unfortunately the book on this music after the 1970s has yet to be written. So as far as the last 30 years go, just start picking recordings and unraveling the loose thread.

[clifford_thornton]

I agree with you.

I'd had that thought myself but am just too busy and not tied in enough to do it.

Also it seems worth recommending Art Taylor's Notes & Tones, even though the focus is more on his peers in the bop/post-bop world, it's just such an amazing document. And he played some mean free drums with Dizzy Reece and Frank Wright in the '70s.

[mjazzg]

Another in agreement with Clifford. For me "As serious as your life" and "The Freedom Principle" both opened many routes to follow when i was just dipping a toe in. I remember them both as being highly readable. Baraka's "Black Music" was also a thought provoking read early on.

Lock on Braxton I tried so hard to enjoy when it was first published and I was in my first flush of Braxton enthusiasm - it defeated me. I should dig it out again

The George Lewis is an important work but may be too specialist for initial reading. I'd've thought it would mean more when you've acquainted yourself with AACM music. I thought the Szwed Sun Ra was just a great read and so very interesting.

I agree with Colinmce, someone needs to write that 70's book (go Clifford!)

Edited July 2, 2014 by mjazzg

[niels]

Wow, thanks for all the information and tips, this is really more than I could hope for!! Seems I have a lot of reading/studying to do in the comings months/years (which I don't mind at all).

And as for Clifford Thornton's last advice (talk to musicians of an older generation), I'm planning to attend more live gigs starting after the summer. Unfortunately most (if not almost all) of my friends are still completely dedicated to NY/Chicago/Detroit techno/house/disco, so it's hard to get anyone of them to a 100% Jazz gig, but I'm at that phase in life (I'm 34) that I don't really care anymore and just will go by myself more often. I don't live too far from Amsterdam where there are often nice shows at the Bimhuis, so when the financial funds permit it I'm planning to go there whenever I can.

[clifford_thornton]

Ah, well the transition from broken beat to Michael Vatcher isn't too hard!

[Steve Reynolds]

Read the penguin guides

[David Ayers]

David G Such Avant-Garde Jazz Musicians: Performing 'Out There', offers a more recent take, but only worth coming to after the above recommended books.

Ronald Radano's book on Braxton is very worth coming to after Lock.

I don't know anything more recent than these and we are yet to have works of the depth offered by Gunther Schuller, Richard Sudhalter, Scott DeVeaux. At least that I know - I don't keep up.

[xybert]

The Penguin Guide to Jazz by Morton and Cook is an excellent suggestion. I'd forgotten how much it expanded my horizons and challenged my preconceptions at the time. Although you'll find yourself disagreeing with some of the assessments i think vastly overall it's on point, and you'll get a feel for where they're coming from, just as you would if they were board members, so it won't surprise you that they don't rate a particular fusion album that you dig very highly etc. Viewing the book as an analog forum where only two guys (albeit two very on to it guys) are posting and you don't have the option of responding apart from in your head works for me.

I'd suggest checking out the 9th edition or earlier as the 10th edition, although still a good read, is more of a 'lite' version of the previous editions.

[colinmce]

The ninth edition is now incredibly rare and goes for over $100 on Amazon. Sad. Hopefully that changes.