How is the sound on the JSP Bessie Smith Boxes?

[medjuck]

I just noticed that Sony is releasing the "Complete Bessie Smith on Columbia" but read in another thread that the sound is terrible. The Frog releases are recommended but they're awfully expensive if you want them all. So how about the JSPs?

[J.A.W.]

Sorry, but the Frogs really are the ones to get; Bessie never sounded better on CD, no contest. I don't know if you're into vinyl, but the old Columbia 2LP-sets (produced by Chris Albertson) are fine. No idea if those are still easy to get and how expensive they are, though.

Edited November 24, 2012 by J.A.W.

[brownie]

The sounds on the JSP boxes are perfectly adequate to my agings ears.

Got the two boxes for the equivalent of two Frog CDs. That made a difference.

I have plenty of Frog CDs and love them but just stayed away from their Bessie Smith releases.

[king ubu]

Thanks brownie. I think I might take the JSP route here, then ... would have been most pleased by a good effort from Sony via Popmarket, but alas no.

[J.A.W.]

You guys don't know what you're missing - and no, I'm in no way connected with Frog

[king ubu]

I gladly trust you on that, but getting those discs is quite a nuisance and costs half a fortune ...

But you may still convince me, as I've not yet bought anything (other than the single one from that essential blues albums Sony box).

[J.A.W.]

I gladly trust you on that, but getting those discs is quite a nuisance and costs half a fortune ...

But you may still convince me, as I've not yet bought anything (other than the single one from that essential blues albums Sony box).

Why is getting the Frogs quite a nuisance? You can order them directly on their site:

http://www.frog-reco...collections/all

Just click on the Bessie Smith covers (there are 9) and proceed from there. They accept Visa and PayPal. In my experience current owner Paul Swinton is a nice guy and easy to deal with.

Edited November 24, 2012 by J.A.W.

[king ubu]

I saw that now, thanks!

It's the amazon prices (and the complete unavailability in any local shop in the past twenty years) that misguided me!

[jazzbo]

Flurin, as Hans mentions the Columbia LPs sound very good. . . I have picked up four of the 2 LP sets easily and cheaply and enjoy listening to them.

[Big Beat Steve]

Why is getting the Frogs quite a nuisance? You can order them directly on their site:

http://www.frog-reco...collections/all

Just click on the Bessie Smith covers (there are 9) and proceed from there. They accept Visa and PayPal. In my experience current owner Paul Swinton is a nice guy and easy to deal with.

Indeed, ordering from Frog is no big deal. I've ordered 1 or 2 CDs from them last year too - as well as the "Frog Blues and Jazz Annuals" Vols. 1 and 2 - great reads!

Shipping costs weren't THAT over the top either.

Flurin, as Hans mentions the Columbia LPs sound very good. . . I have picked up four of the 2 LP sets easily and cheaply and enjoy listening to them.

Speaking of Columbia LP reissues of the Bessie Smith opus: How does the 10-LP box set reissued in the 70s CBS Special Products series compare SOUNDWISE with the 2-LP sets (those with the colorful painting artwork on the covers IIRC) that were around back then?

I have the box set (LSP 14100) that was marketed exclusively through the "Zweitausendeins" shops and mail order service.

Anybody any idea and/or aural experience?

Same remastering and same pressing quality as the 2-LP sets? The back cover of the box says "Produced by John Hammond, Chris Albertson" but no other specifics. They sound quite decent to me but I've never heard the 2-LP sets so cannot compare.

[king ubu]

Lon, I know about the LP versions but it's most unlikely I can find them for good prices here. If you get vinyl in NM condition, it's never cheap here. Too little demand, too few shops. (And I don't like buying vinyl without being able to at least look at it!)

[jazzbo]

Okay. I'm listening to more an more vinyl now and loving the sound so I wanted to mention it. If you run across them at a good price and they pass inspection I think you'd like the sound.

[Ted O'Reilly]

Get the Frog versions. Be happy.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Ted O'Reilly

[mikeweil]

I've got the LP box set that Zweitausendeins licensed from Columbia. It came without any booklet, just ten LPs in the box in plain white paper sleeves - that's why I got the Bessie Smith Companion and Chris Albertson's book. There's a note in very small print on the back saying "Produced by John Hammond . Chris Albertson" - so that should be said 1970's Columbia remastering?

[paul secor]

I've got the LP box set that Zweitausendeins licensed from Columbia. It came without any booklet, just ten LPs in the box in plain white paper sleeves - that's why I got the Bessie Smith Companion and Chris Albertson's book. There's a note in very small print on the back saying "Produced by John Hammond . Chris Albertson" - so that should be said 1970's Columbia remastering?

I had that box and the sound on the Frogs was superior.

[mikeweil]

I was afraid so ....

[J.A.W.]

I've got the LP box set that Zweitausendeins licensed from Columbia. It came without any booklet, just ten LPs in the box in plain white paper sleeves - that's why I got the Bessie Smith Companion and Chris Albertson's book. There's a note in very small print on the back saying "Produced by John Hammond . Chris Albertson" - so that should be said 1970's Columbia remastering?

I had that box and the sound on the Frogs was superior.

The late John R.T. Davies did a really amazing job with those Frogs. It was one of Davies' last projects before he died.

Edited November 25, 2012 by J.A.W.

[J.A.W.]

I said earlier that there are 9 Bessie Smith Frog CDs; my mistake, there are 8.

[mikeweil]

Is there any of the Bessie Smith Frog CDs the experts here would recommend for starters? I tend to listen/buy in chronological order, but in this case I would prefer starting with some musical highlight.

[Christiern]

We, the late Larry Hiller and I (forget John Hammond, he dropped by twice and contributed nothing) spent two years, working 6 hours, 5 nights a week to get the best sound available with the day's equipment. We used as many as 4 78s to make one selection, and I spent a lot of time hunting for source material in good condition. Thanks to Clive Davis, Columbia never rushed us, and when we needed to have special styli made, or take trip to record a collection out of town, all I had to do was ask.

That said, I really appreciate your comment, Lon. BTW, knowing that the transfer technology would be improving, I made sure that raw master transfers of every track were placed in the Columbia vault at Iron Mountain. Inexplicably, the people who produced the subsequent CD boxes never used those tapes! I have not yet figured out why that could be.

[jazzbo]

Chris, those lps are beautiful productions in every way. I really do love the sound of them, and the covers are wonderful, the notes, they're just loving reissues. I need to complete my collection of them and will.

I can only imagine the amount of work that went into these, and I can also imagine what a sense of accomplishment and pride to have completed them and have them out there as witnesse to her artistry. I only wish I could have been involved in work like that. Your contributions to the history and preservation of jazz are appreciated.

I remember telling you about the Frog reissues on this forum. They're great too, but you were there first.

Edited November 25, 2012 by jazzbo

[J.A.W.]

I had the 5 Columbia 2LP-sets that Chris produced back in my LP days and they did indeed sound great. Imagine my disappointment and disgust when I first heard the 2CD-sets with their horrendous sound that Columbia put out in the early 1990s. I'm glad to hear Chris had nothing to do with those.

[lipi]

I have both the JSP and some of the Frogs. My relatively young ears are perfectly happy with the JSP. The Frogs are slightly different, but since I can't, on repeated listening, decide whether they're better or worse, I've decided it's clearly not worth getting the ones I don't have yet.

Let's not talk about the Columbia CDs. (Though do get volume 4 if you want to hear the interviews.)

[Big Beat Steve]

I've got the LP box set that Zweitausendeins licensed from Columbia. It came without any booklet, just ten LPs in the box in plain white paper sleeves - that's why I got the Bessie Smith Companion and Chris Albertson's book. There's a note in very small print on the back saying "Produced by John Hammond . Chris Albertson" - so that should be said 1970's Columbia remastering?

Good to hear there is indeed no booklet. I had been wondering about that ever since I got that box set secondhand (with secondhand purchases something might have got lost along the way after all).

Reading Chris Albertson's interesting recollections, those Columbia remasterings of the 70s, then, were as good as they could possible be with the technology of the time, and summing up the other statements the Frogs seem to be a bit better but not THAT much, it seems ... So the Columbia/CBS set will remain good enough for me.

[John L]

I gladly trust you on that, but getting those discs is quite a nuisance and costs half a fortune ...

But you may still convince me, as I've not yet bought anything (other than the single one from that essential blues albums Sony box).

Why is getting the Frogs quite a nuisance? You can order them directly on their site:

http://www.frog-reco...collections/all

Just click on the Bessie Smith covers (there are 9) and proceed from there. They accept Visa and PayPal. In my experience current owner Paul Swinton is a nice guy and easy to deal with.

Thanks for that link. I didn't even realize that Frog sells directly like that.

I have been waiting patiently for Frog to issue the Bessie Smith box set, but I guess that is not in the cards. So I will start picking up the individual Frog releases. I actually find that I listen to Bessie Smith much less than before due to the fact that I don't have access to my LP collection where I am located, and the only sound source that I have is the first Columbia CDs. At that time, the overuse of noise reduction was the norm in remastering, and Bessie sounds so distant on that set.