Jazztropic Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 I keep reading posts where members refer to cds from Spain and other places as being bootlegs.Can someone explain this?I have noticed many new lables rereleasing older Blue Note Prestige and Candid sets.Is this what is being refered to? Any help? Quote
Claude Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Probably not Candid (recorded in the 60's), but Prestige, Blue Note recording from pre-1954.. There is a difference between US and european copyright law: the duration of the protection of sound recordings is 50 years in Europe, and has been extended to 70 years in the US a few years ago. This means that recordings from 1953 or older are in the public domain in Europe, but still protected in the US. Definitive Records from Spain has specialized on reissues of this material and closely follows the 50 year dateline. These CDs are considered bootlegs in the US, but they are openly sold by many online stores. Quote
brownie Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 A typical example is a brand new 2CD Miles Davis set from Definitive that has the 1951-1954 studio material from the Miles sessions that were recorded for Blue Note AND Prestige. This material is now in the public domain here and this issue is considered legal in the European Union. It is illegal to release (or sell) this in the USA. Quote
Dmitry Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 Where do these European companies obtain the master tapes [unless they just copy the existing US cds]? If the source material ceases to be copyrighted 50 years after its release I wouldn't think they just call up Blue Note and tell the vault guy to fork over the Miles tapes. Any copyright lawyers here? Quote
brownie Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 Dmitry, they won't even try getting the master tapes. With good reasons., The answer to that request would be a straight NO. They just copy from available material (US or non-US). Sound can be pretty good but these releases never include new material nor add anything to the audio quality. Quote
Muskrat Ramble Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 Big discussion of this issue here. You'll need to skip a few pages to get to the relevant parts. Quote
Muskrat Ramble Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 Quote They just copy from available material (US or non-US). Sound can be pretty good but these releases never include new material nor add anything to the audio quality. The 40CD Ellington box on History/TIM certainly improves on the audio quality where the material from the '90 Blanton-Webster Band set on RCA/Bluebird is concerned. (Not great, but better overall.) Perhaps they were working from the recent re-release of that material by RCA or from Classics? Or maybe they did some of their own remastering? Who knows for sure. Keep in mind that there are European labels, like JSP, that take (fair) advantage of the copyright discrepancy and indeed do their own remastering--by some of the best guys in the business, too. Quote
037 Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 brownie said: They just copy from available material (US or non-US). Sound can be pretty good but these releases never include new material nor add anything to the audio quality. Never say never, brownie. Sometimes the European labels issue never-before-released material and/or improved sound. Like Masters of Jazz, Phontastic, Jazz Band for the former; Frog, Hep, the afore mentioned JSP for the latter; and Jazz Unlimited on both counts--to name a few. "7" Quote
Claude Posted January 31, 2004 Report Posted January 31, 2004 The policy of these different reissue labels is certainly not identical. Some choose particular projects (mostly material from the 40s and earlier) and do some careful research and remastering, others such as Definitive simply want to put quickly on the market the music that just entered the public domain in Europe. Check their newest releases and it seems obvious. Many artist compilations with awkward titles, which all end in 1953. I'm sure Definitive takes the music from existing CDs. How would they get tapes from Blue Note or Fantasy, when the original CDs are still on the market and the music under copyright protection in the US? They claim 24bit remastering on their CDs, but that could mean that they do some minor editing in 24bit (every PC user with the right software can do that). Quote
Dmitry Posted February 1, 2004 Report Posted February 1, 2004 Muskrat Ramble said: Big discussion of this issue here. Thanks, Muskrat. I just read [almost] the whole thing. It's quite illuminating. Quote
brownie Posted February 1, 2004 Report Posted February 1, 2004 037 said: Never say never, brownie. Sometimes the European labels issue never-before-released material and/or improved sound. Like Masters of Jazz, Phontastic, Jazz Band for the former; Frog, Hep, the afore mentioned JSP for the latter; and Jazz Unlimited on both counts--to name a few. "7" The 'They' referred to material released by companies from the Definitive group from Andorra/Spain. I am well aware of the added - and very welcome - material that is included in releases from other labels. Quote
037 Posted February 1, 2004 Report Posted February 1, 2004 brownie said: 037 said: Never say never, brownie. Sometimes the European labels issue never-before-released material and/or improved sound. Like Masters of Jazz, Phontastic, Jazz Band for the former; Frog, Hep, the afore mentioned JSP for the latter; and Jazz Unlimited on both counts--to name a few. "7" The 'They' referred to material released by companies from the Definitive group from Andorra/Spain. I am well aware of the added - and very welcome - material that is included in releases from other labels. Then we are in complete agreement, brownie. Since you specifically addressed dmitry, I assumed that you were replying directly to his question which (to me) implied all European countries. Cheers, "7" Quote
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