david weiss Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Last time I felt like this was with the 1986 Redsoxs. They were useless in Game 7. I hope the Spurs can recover better then that. Up until the last minute of the 4th quarter, this was a great series. The best I've seen in a while and the first to hold my attention in ages..... Manu, even when he was a great player was never a clutch player or the smartest player (a few year back I remember he lost a series against Dallas when up three with a few seconds remaining (in a Game 7) he fouled Nowitzki driving to the basket and Nowitzki hit the shot and the foul shot and sent the game into overtime where the Spurs lost the game and the series and cost them a trip to the finals. All Ginoble had to do was let Nowitzki hit the shot and they would have won by one or fouled him hard enough (something he is not capable of doing actually) so he couldn't have gotten a shot up and even if he hit the two free throws, the Spurs would have won by one. It was the stupidest play I think I ever saw with so much on the line) and he proved it again last night with some less then clutch free throw shooting and some horrible turnovers. That said..... Ginoble was fouled on that play but also took three steps. It looked more like a running play in a football game. Green was fouled at the end. Bosh got all ball but his body crashed into Green's at the same time. I think that's a foul. Neither one of those bothered me that much though. One foul shot hit or one offensive rebound grabbed in the final seconds of regulation would have made this all a moot point. One play that hasn't been discussed even though it was replayed many times was the play a few plays before the Ginoble thing when LeBron was driving to the basket and Green was defending. The ball went out of bounds and they reviewed it to see who it was off of. While it was repeating several times, you could see LeBron holding the ball in both hands throw his left elbow (with a lot behind it with the ball in both hands) at Green knocking him to the ground but Green still was able to get his hand on the ball on his way down and force LeBron to lose control of it. It seems like that was a pretty clear offensive foul and that Green should have gone to the line and that probably would have sealed things right there. Did anyone else see that play? In the end though, this is all speculation of course. The Spurs should have pulled this out. I hope they bring something tomorrow and still have something left in the tank to pull this out..... Otherwise the most lasting impression of this great dynasties run will be the last minute of regulation of this game...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) While it was repeating several times, you could see LeBron holding the ball in both hands throw his left elbow (with a lot behind it with the ball in both hands) at Green knocking him to the ground but Green still was able to get his hand on the ball on his way down and force LeBron to lose control of it. It seems like that was a pretty clear offensive foul and that Green should have gone to the line and that probably would have sealed things right there. Offensive fouls do not result in free throws in the NBA, even when the other team is in the bonus. Thus the net result of the play would have been the same (except James picks up a 4th foul that's meaningless unless the game goes into a second OT). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgAbo6IJB_A LeBron's elbow does come up there. On the other hand, an instant before the elbow touches Green, Green's right hand is already touching LeBron's left hip. (see the 1:06 mark.) Green is not set in position, so strictly speaking that should be either a block or a hand-check called on Green. In a fast-moving transition play in overtime of an elimination NBA Finals game, the officials will almost never blow the whistle for either type of contact. The Bosh block on Green...seems like a similar case. A running fallaway 3 from the corner while kicking your legs out a little to get some separation? If the defender's hand gets all ball, which Bosh's did, it's hard to see the ref making that call for the body contact. The defender is required to give the shooter airspace to land, but has the right to contest the shot. If Green's momentum (from sprinting to the corner and launching off-balance, not really from the contact) doesn't cause him to fall down out of bounds, I think a no-call there is much more obvious. Edited June 19, 2013 by Big Wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Ginoble was fouled on that play but also took three steps. It looked more like a running play in a football game.That's what I thought. Couldn't understand why it wasn't mentioned on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david weiss Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) While it was repeating several times, you could see LeBron holding the ball in both hands throw his left elbow (with a lot behind it with the ball in both hands) at Green knocking him to the ground but Green still was able to get his hand on the ball on his way down and force LeBron to lose control of it. It seems like that was a pretty clear offensive foul and that Green should have gone to the line and that probably would have sealed things right there. Offensive fouls do not result in free throws in the NBA, even when the other team is in the bonus. Thus the net result of the play would have been the same (except James picks up a 4th foul that's meaningless unless the game goes into a second OT). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgAbo6IJB_A LeBron's elbow does come up there. On the other hand, an instant before the elbow touches Green, Green's right hand is already touching LeBron's left hip. (see the 1:06 mark.) Green is not set in position, so strictly speaking that should be either a block or a hand-check called on Green. In a fast-moving transition play in overtime of an elimination NBA Finals game, the officials will almost never blow the whistle for either type of contact. The Bosh block on Green...seems like a similar case. A running fallaway 3 from the corner while kicking your legs out a little to get some separation? If the defender's hand gets all ball, which Bosh's did, it's hard to see the ref making that call for the body contact. The defender is required to give the shooter airspace to land, but has the right to contest the shot. If Green's momentum (from sprinting to the corner and launching off-balance, not really from the contact) doesn't cause him to fall down out of bounds, I think a no-call there is much more obvious. Thanks for clearing that up Big Wheel, I thought in the penalty an offensive foul would get you to the line, my bad...... However, a roundhouse elbow is a little more blatant then a hand on the body but I guess a foul is a foul.....or not a foul..... As for Green, I don't know, that was pretty hard contact and at the same time as the block. I think that's a foul but I doubt Green makes that shot anyways so this is not one I'm complaining about. That was probably the refs point of view as well, they don't want to be the ones to change the outcome of the game by calling that one..... Edited June 19, 2013 by david weiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I still think the Spurs will win game 7 I hope I'm wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve(thelil) Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) I still think that Lebron is so great that any criticisms, even if true, are as relevant as " Da Vinci was not punctual and his hygiene could be improved apon" Edited June 20, 2013 by steve(thelil) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 The two turnovers James had down the stretch in the 4th quarter were such awful chokes that, had LeBron not been bailed out by some really fortunate Spurs free throw misses and a miracle Ray Allen three, I think his legacy may have been damaged. Unbelievably lucky win for the Heat, and I think the Spurs won't be able to recover from having the championship in hand and blowing it that badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 The two turnovers James had down the stretch in the 4th quarter were such awful chokes that, had LeBron not been bailed out by some really fortunate Spurs free throw misses and a miracle Ray Allen three, I think his legacy may have been damaged. Unbelievably lucky win for the Heat, and I think the Spurs won't be able to recover from having the championship in hand and blowing it that badly. That sums up my thinking too, though I'll watch for daggum reason. I wondered this at the time (I really did even though I never inhaled the NBA rulebook) but Duncan getting back onto the court when they reviewed to see if Allen's 3 was 3 was illegal and a technical violation. So assuming someone on Miami could have made the FT it may have been over sooner. At the time I thought a Spur had pulled a Weber Fab 5 TO violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve(thelil) Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) Suggesting that Lebron choked in the 4th quarter because he made a few mistakes is really bizarre, in light of the fact that he had one of the greatest clutch quarters ever, mistakes and all. No matter what he does, some people insist on focusing on things he doesn't do perfectly. The price he pays for being so close to perfect is that he will inevitably be dissed for being anything but perfect. Edited June 20, 2013 by steve(thelil) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 LeBron was having a huge quarter (though a good bit was with Splitter in the paint) until arguably the two most crucial possessions of the quarter, during which he flailed into the key for a turnover, then the next trip down he got an awkward, forced shot blocked and sat down to cry for a foul while the Spurs went the other way. Had they lost, it would make three Finals that LeBron had been unable to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Let's go HEAT!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Unbelievably lucky win for the Heat, and I think the Spurs won't be able to recover from having the championship in hand and blowing it that badly. I definitely agree on the first part. The Spurs lost that game more than the Heat won it, for a variety of reasons. Hopefully the second part is false. I see this as final game as a battle between the Spurs' intelligence and the Heat's (really LeBron's) energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I haven't watched a single second of any games this season.... I hope the heat can pull it off..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 The two turnovers James had down the stretch in the 4th quarter were such awful chokes that, had LeBron not been bailed out by some really fortunate Spurs free throw misses and a miracle Ray Allen three, I think his legacy may have been damaged. Unbelievably lucky win for the Heat, and I think the Spurs won't be able to recover from having the championship in hand and blowing it that badly. That sums up my thinking too, though I'll watch for daggum reason. I wondered this at the time (I really did even though I never inhaled the NBA rulebook) but Duncan getting back onto the court when they reviewed to see if Allen's 3 was 3 was illegal and a technical violation. So assuming someone on Miami could have made the FT it may have been over sooner. At the time I thought a Spur had pulled a Weber Fab 5 TO violation. If the refs didn't stop the game to see if Allen was behind the line(IMO, unnecessary, it looked very clear to me that he was behind the line), the Spurs had 5.2 seconds, could have rushed downcourt, perhaps catch the Heat in a mismatch, or a Heat player late to cover, etc. Popovich looked ready to pop on that, and I agree with him. That seemed to neutralize whatever advantage the Spurs had with possession at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Go SPURS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Congrats, Evan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Congrats!first to San A for contributing to an incredible seriesthen Miami Heat it's staff and players and fansspecial mentions to . Lebron the best player on the planet. his biggest fan on the planet, thelil. my man Dwayne Wade Edited June 21, 2013 by uli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 *excepting the fans who left Game 6 in the 4th quarter with the outcome very much in doubt. #nonbasketballbandwagonfans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Juwan Howard "earns" his second ring!!! Three more to go Go Fab 5!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 *excepting the fans who left Game 6 in the 4th quarter with the outcome very much in doubt. #nonbasketballbandwagonfans yeah they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Two more things to the season from me. I don't think that the San Antonio players should beat themselves over the head for giving away game 6. In a way I thought Miami gave away game 1. so the series was even on that account. I absolutely loved how the Miami players had a bit of fun on behalf of the press in their after game interviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Miami needs to get better ... Spurs were a much more formidable opponent than I figured they would be prior to the series. But in the end, Miami just had more in the tank when it mattered most. But I come away from this series a big fan of the Spurs. And Pop is awesome. Congrats Heat. Paps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve(thelil) Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 *excepting the fans who left Game 6 in the 4th quarter with the outcome very much in doubt. #nonbasketballbandwagonfans Haters will look for and find the most irrelevant reasons to dislike a team they already dislike. Lebron didn't leave early. That's what matters. How come nobody is calling Duncan a choker? Because he isn't. The greatest players aren't great on every play. If you hate them already when they miss a big shot, they're a choker. Some guys will call a player with 1) the greatest pressure on him and 2) the best elimination game stats in playoff history.......... a choker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Duncan and Kawhi Leonard played consistently for the entire series. The rest of the Spurs players didn't - they seemed to take turns getting hot. Problem is that nobody else was hot in Games 6 or 7, and Ginobili and Green were both VERY bad. Spurs should have won Game 6. For the Heat to only squeak out both wins on their home court with LeBron playing as well as he finally did, says alot for the Spurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Stat of the night Heat win with Bosh scoring 0 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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