NBA 2012 -- 2013

[Quincy]

I'd like to add the 76ers team that faced the Lakers as another example of a crap opponent. Ugh!

Jordan worshippers may never admit it, put put a Lebron on all of Jordan's rosters and vice versa, and we have a different story

. Lebron with (in various years) Pippen, Horace Grant, Bill Cartright, Tony Kukoc, Rodman, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, etc....C'mon

Also, because of the way Lebron, Bosh and Wade came together and the focus on the Heat's "Big Three", Bosh and Wade have become overrated.

I would argue that every championship team that Magic, Jordan, Bird, Dr J, played on had a 2nd and 3d player combo BETTER than Bosh and Wade are THIS YEAR.

Howabout: Kareem and Worthy? Kareem and Byron Scott? Pippen and Rodman? Rodman and Ron Harper? Pippen and Cartwright? Parish and Mchale? Moses Malone and Maurice Cheeks?

It's not just combos or big 3s though. You rattled off some important guys on those Bulls teams. For the Heat Battier & Miller are guys who know their roles and are good at what they do, and Haslem is a badass who overcame a horrific injury last year. And this year they added Ray Allen & the Birdman. Yes the Heat are light on a big bad center, and I'm not trying to diminish LeBron's greatness, but he's had a good deal of talent put around him. As far as injuries to the older players which might do them in, this is a risk of using older players, and as their opponent is very old, that's not going to work as an excuse for me if they don't do it.

[steve(thelil)]

I don't disagree, but I don't know if Lebron's surrounding cast would seem nearly as talented if they weren't playing with a guy who is so great at running an offense and getting other people involved and making them better.

Also, maybe a more important thing about the teams that play beautiful ball than how many (in the abstract) "good players" they have is how good the players are at playing WITH one another.. The Heat and Spurs at their best both play gorgeous team ball.

Edited June 6, 2013 by steve(thelil)

[Soulstation1]

Game 1

Miami -5

Under 190 points

[Quincy]

I don't disagree, but I don't know if Lebron's surrounding cast would seem nearly as talented if they weren't playing with a guy who is so great at running an offense and getting other people involved and making them better.

Also, maybe a more important thing about the teams that play beautiful ball than how many (in the abstract) "good players" they have is how good the players are at playing WITH one another.. The Heat and Spurs at their best both play gorgeous team ball.

Oh indeed. Whenever people play the "name your all-time starting 5" if you save the center for last (and it seems like most do) it really becomes about style & beauty. Amongst guards try to figure out if it's Magic, West, Kobe (so painful for Laker fans to drop one), Jordan, Oscar, or someone else. At SF James (or play him almost anywhere), Bird, Dr. J or Baylor? PF some to chose from are Barkley, Malone or Duncan. Or is Duncan a C? And if you think Russell is too small at C I bet he could play PF. But now here's where it gets fun, picking a center, and there's no real right answer (either).

Do you want those gorgeous sky hooks and scoring from Kareem. Plus with the Bucks he was more of a badass than we remember.

How about Hakeem and the dream shake? Sometimes I'm tempted to pick him just because it'd be so entertaining to watch.

The immovable force of Shaq?

If you're playing "all-time" and the game is just "best season" Walton becomes an option. He'd grab a board with both hands above his head and rocket a perfect pass down the court on the break.

Of course there's Wilt, Russell, Moses...Such different styles (especially between Jabber, Shaq, Hakeem) yet all immensely talented. It makes the game fun.

Okay, a 12 year old to sing the anthem? Bah! Go Spurs!

[PHILLYQ]

I'm sick of the "greatest ever" hyperbole with Jordan. Jordan's Bulls beat old, depleted teams and mediocre, unbalanced teams. It was a lull between Kareem and Shaq.

In fact, I'm sick of the individual being raised above the team. No basketball player wins anything alone. Not Jordan, or Kobe, or LeBron, or anybody.

I half agree. To get to the lull (10 years of LA sucking, so the league must not have been good ) they had to kill off the Bad Boys. You play who you have to play, and Seattle, Phoenix & Utah were all fine teams. Certainly as good if not better than the likes of the NJ Nets or that Orlando team the Lakers had to face. Or god, that Cleveland team the Spurs had to face? Sheeeeesh. I think the Bulls competition was just fine during the '90s thankyouverymuch.

I have no problem whatsoever with not thinking that Jordan is the greatest ever, I don't even necessarily think it myself. One player isn't going to do it and there are different jobs to be done on the court. What the hell would Jordan vs. Jabbar one-on-one look like anyway? It's silly.

And yes, ring counting is stupid. Plus some guys get so close, and fighting the good the fight is what sports is about. Malone & Stockton could easily have a ring each if you call a pushing off foul before "the last shot." And this is the sport with shakiest officiating too.

If you do ring counting, Bill Russell is the greatest player ever and Robert Horry is one of the greatest ever(Better than Wilt!), Bob Love stunk, Patrick Ewing stunk, etc.

[Noj]

Go Spurs!

I will, without trepidation, say Jordan is the greatest shooting guard of all time. MJ was a breathtaking athlete and an unflappable winner who not only lived up to his hype but looked awesome while doing it. However, Jordan could not pass the ball like Magic Johnson. Nor did he score the ball as much as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (who had as many NBA titles and more NCAA titles). Jordan's even surpassed in shooting touch by Bird. He never averaged a triple double for a season like the Big O. He didn't average 50ppg and 25rpg like The Stilt. Greatest ever overall my foot. There's no such player.

[Quincy]

Wow, die by the 3 and win the game anyway!

[Soulstation1]

Series over if the Spurs win Sunday

[TedR]

Exciting if Spurs win the first two in Miami but it's unlikely. Miami is fierce when they're behind.

[Bright Moments]

tru dat!

[steve(thelil)]

The thing that impressed me about the Heat in the first half was that even though the Spurs were excellent at quickly doubling on Lebron and Wade when they got the ball, both guys QUICKLY found an open man. Often the man they passed to had an open shot. Or that guy made a quick pass to keep the offense nicely spaced and the ball kept moving until someone got a good shot.

Anyone who says that Lebron or Wade should have been more aggressive at getting their own shot doesn't get it. If it came to that later, Lebron and Wade can try to score with 2 men on them. But early in a game it's much more important to keep the ball moving, to get an offensive flow and to get other guys hot. But the way the Heat eventually dismantled an EXCELLENT Spurs defense was a thing of intelligent beauty.

Also, despite the fact that Lebron was not hot shooting and the Heat had trouble scoring against the Spurs defense, the Heat didn't let up on defense for a moment. The Spurs got very few easy shots.

I don't know if it's a question of when "they decide to win" as people often say. I think last night it was more a question of early work creating later opportunities, but in any event their ability to take over a game in just a couple of minutes is something to see. I just rewatched the 4th quarter. During the few minutes that they broke it open, Lebron made one key play after another, defensively, ballhandling, passing and scoring.

Lebron does so many things that even when he's not shooting well his versatility is absurd. He blocked a shot by BIG Tim Duncan in the first half and a driving dunk by Bigger Tiago Splitter in the second. And he stole the ball from lightning quick Tony Parker when he was isolating for the last shot of the first half. His ball handling and passing got both Chalmers and Miller in great grooves. Who does all that?

PS. What a pleasure having Van Gundy as the color man instead of Reggie Miller, the most annoying shill for star players ever. And that's a very contested category. His commentary makes my skin crawl.

Edited June 11, 2013 by steve(thelil)

[Big Wheel]

I don't mind Miller as much as some do but Marv Albert is really starting to grate on me. Just doesn't come across as sincere anymore. Mike Breen is better and has very good chemistry with JVG but I sometimes feel like he relies on pet phrases a little too much ("throws it down", "OH WHAT A BLOCK FROM X", "puts it in," "BANG," etc. I actually wish we saw more of Kevin Harlan or Mike Tirico in the postseason doing play-by-play; the color guys I am less picky about (Miller, Hubie Brown, JVG etc. are mostly fine in my book).

[Soulstation1]

[uli]

Ballnight!

[uli]

How about those Spurs?

[Soulstation1]

Will Turtlehead retire if they win?

[alocispepraluger102]

this series, thus far, has all the makings of a script authored by vince mcmahon.

[Soulstation1]

Is Joey Crawford back as special guest referee in game # 4?

[alocispepraluger102]

Is Joey Crawford back as special guest referee in game # 4?

might as well be.

Edited June 13, 2013 by alocispepraluger102

[Bright Moments]

[uli]

it's gonna be "epic" tonite

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/heats-clutch-stats-meet-match-in-spurs-strategy/

[steve(thelil)]

He's certainly not the only offender in the play by play universe, but Mike Breen annoys me with his perspective that how much a guy is scoring is dispositive of how well he's playing. Often he doesn't even mention a great pass that sets up an easy layup (eg. "Bosh again!). And even on the too rare occasions when he says "great pass" for an easy bucket he too often won't mention who made it.

Also, last night he and Van Gundy kept playing up how the Heat can only beat the Spurs if the big three score a lot, totally forgetting that In game 2 the Heat won big with none of them having a big scoring night. Once again, the overlooked key to winning are the guys on offense and defense who are responsible for the team getting easy shots, be it the scorer, passer or even a guy whose defense creates an easy opportunity.

Even last night, with the big 3 scoring 85 between them, none of the 3 were really doing it with long range shooting, and and many of the 85 were the result of team play and not just "scorers doing their thing." (However, I don't deny that Wade created a lot of scoring opportunities for himself driving to the hoop)

And since I've already beaten the dead horse about hitting tough shots being way overrated, I might as well butcher and fricasee it> The Spurs were much more adept last night at hitting long, tough shots than the Heat- and they lost by 16. If a team is hitting a lot of tough shots it usually means it isn't getting enough easy shots. Which in turn often means a loss.

(Hopefully I'm almost done with this analy-rant). I'm not saying a team that shoots a lot of 3's is doing something wrong. But there's a big difference between open 3 pointers in the flow of the offense and forced, long 3 pointers. The Spurs hit 8 3's last night, but several were on long range bombs with a man on the guy (especially Danny Green). Great shots, sure. But while this gave them some points, the shots themselves were taken because the Spurs weren't able to work for easy shots. Credit to the Heat's defense. The Heat only hit four 3's, but they didn't need to hit 3's because they were getting so many easier shots.

Edited June 15, 2013 by steve(thelil)

[uli]

What I usually don't like about the Breen/vanGundy duo is that they usually talk about everything but the game they are supposed to comment. Last night they did a better than usual job, imho. Especially they did comment on Wade's fabulous performance. They did commend him for some extraordinay nice passes and for his overall MVP like performance that was much more than just creating opportunities for himself by driving to the basket. They also frequently referred to his stats which iirc ended up to be 32 points (with very effective shooting) 6 rebounds, 4 assists (same as LeBron) 5 or 6 steels and no turnovers.

[steve(thelil)]

What I usually don't like about the Breen/vanGundy duo is that they usually talk about everything but the game they are supposed to comment. Last night they did a better than usual job, imho. Especially they did comment on Wade's fabulous performance. They did commend him for some extraordinay nice passes and for his overall MVP like performance that was much more than just creating opportunities for himself by driving to the basket. They also frequently referred to his stats which iirc ended up to be 32 points (with very effective shooting) 6 rebounds, 4 assists (same as LeBron) 5 or 6 steels and no turnovers.

Didn't mean to suggest that all Wade did was create opportunities for himself. I was just commending him for being the only guy who seemed to be able to easily work the ball to get a GOOD, mid-ranged open jumper for himself. But it was among the many good things he did.

New point: In the first half Tony Parker made a bunch of impossible looking floaters,seemingly while diving for extra yardage at full speed.

[TedR]

It's now Miami's championship. Miami showed, after getting blown out in the third game, that they respond with a fierce competitiveness when they need to win. Unfortunately Parker can't play the minutes needed to keep SA competitive with Miami over the course of 3 more games, if needed. And we won't see the Spurs 3 point barrage again with Miami's more aggressive defense.