MLB Hot Stove League 2012-13

[Blue Train]

  On 12/18/2012 at 3:07 AM, paul secor said:

  On 12/18/2012 at 12:21 AM, Blue Train said:

  On 12/17/2012 at 10:36 PM, paul secor said:

Dickey probably won't have another year like he did in 2012, but he's a guy who will go out and give you everything he's got every time he takes the mound. He gave the Mets a chance to win just about every time he took the mound last year. Dickey was the only bona fide major leaguer in their starting rotation. He (and David Wright) gave Mets fans a reason to come out and root for their team. The rest of the Mets' starters would be long relievers - that's probably a stretch - or in the minors if they were on a team that was a contender. And their starting lineup - with the exception of Wright - would be bench players or in the minors if they played for a contender.

A good friend of mine is a loyal Mets fan and he's disgusted by this. Trading your best pitcher for some might be's/could be's is spitting in your fans' faces.

Don't you mean trading away your "best" pitcher who had one good year in his entire career and just turned 38 from a team that has no chance of going anywhere in the two years the Blue Jays signed him too? Has your friend been paying attention to just how much money the owners of the Mets have lost as a result of the whole Bernie Madoff thing? Just this year they agreed to pay $162 million on top of all the other money the lost. Even if they had both Reyes and Dickey they were not going anywhere anytime soon. Never mind in the next two years.

Mets fans aren't responsible for the Mets owners' financial wheeling and dealing with Madoff. If they can't afford to put a decent team on the field when they're located in a large population/big market area, they should sell the team. Mets fans deserve better. They're the ones who are buying the tickets and paying for cable TV. Are they supposed to feel sorry for the owners? Wilpon and company made their deals with Madoff. No one forced them to be greedy.

And, regardless of his age and career record, Dickey was still the Mets' best pitcher - not their "best" pitcher.

He had a career year and that won him the Cy Young and the only thing that kept them from being last in their division was the fire sale Marlins and the disaster that was Ozzie Guillen. Even if he somehow just repeated this season over the next two years. They're not going anywhere in that division with the team they had. Even with him it was a contest between which could be worse the Mets or Marlins.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Blue Train

[Blue Train]

  On 12/19/2012 at 10:25 PM, GoodSpeak said:

  On 12/17/2012 at 10:36 PM, paul secor said:

Dickey probably won't have another year like he did in 2012, but he's a guy who will go out and give you everything he's got every time he takes the mound. He gave the Mets a chance to win just about every time he took the mound last year. Dickey was the only bona fide major leaguer in their starting rotation. He (and David Wright) gave Mets fans a reason to come out and root for their team. The rest of the Mets' starters would be long relievers - that's probably a stretch - or in the minors if they were on a team that was a contender. And their starting lineup - with the exception of Wright - would be bench players or in the minors if they played for a contender.

A good friend of mine is a loyal Mets fan and he's disgusted by this. Trading your best pitcher for some might be's/could be's is spitting in your fans' faces.

Good point.

But, after starting a few games for the [hated] Dodgers, he went on the IR list and never pitched again.

That isn't accurate.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Blue Train

[Blue Train]

  On 12/19/2012 at 10:11 AM, BERIGAN said:

People forget, but 2012 was Dickey's 3rd straight very good year. 2010 ERA, 2.84, 2011, 3.28, and 2012, 2.73

But, at 38, would he, even as a knuckle baller be there by the time the Mets were competitive again? If the talent isn’t there now,(or all that deep on the farm) don’t you have to trade off good players to get back prospects?

Now, the Mets financial situation...only because Bud is friends with the Wilpons does it seem they are given a longer leash. If the team isn’t very good in 2013, fans need to stop showing up, that' is about the only thing that gets owners and overlords to pay attention.

Weird how both NY teams are acting like they are the Twins with a very limited budget to work with. I know the Yankees Luxury tax was/is going to go up quite a bit, but they are going to have a tough time competing with the Jays, down a few bats and starting pitchers. Now, if only the fans would stop showing up in the Bronx...

Does only his ERA count?

[Matthew]

Aren't the Yankees keeping the payroll down this year because if they get under the luxury tax level, they get some kind of huge refund?

[Dan Gould]

I don't believe there's a refund but I do believe that if they stay above it for 2014 the tax rate takes a very large jump. They'll be over it this year, I am almost certain, but they are trying to work down to being under it for 2014 because the rate is like 50% based on the new CBA.

[Tim McG]

Jason Schmidt, [after pitching 3 games in early April, going on the DL then pitching 3 more games in early June then missing the rest of the 2007 season and all of 2008 and placed on the IR list] pitched 4 mediocre games spanning his quasi-return in late July and exit in early August. 10 games, 10 starts, a 4-6 record, in three years' time with three stints on the DL/IR list spanning nearly two years. He was done and did little to help his new team after the move. Hence, my point about trading Dickey.

http://www.baseball-...1&t=p&year=2007

http://www.baseball-...1&t=p&year=2009

And the problem here is what again...?

Edited December 20, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Blue Train]

  On 12/20/2012 at 7:51 PM, Matthew said:

Aren't the Yankees keeping the payroll down this year because if they get under the luxury tax level, they get some kind of huge refund?

It's only a refund if you take into account they're paying a 42.5% luxury tax this year. It will be around 50% next year. 17.5% if it's under $189 in 2014 going into 2015.

[Tim McG]

  On 12/20/2012 at 7:54 PM, Dan Gould said:

I don't believe there's a refund but I do believe that if they stay above it for 2014 the tax rate takes a very large jump. They'll be over it this year, I am almost certain, but they are trying to work down to being under it for 2014 because the rate is like 50% based on the new CBA.

As long as the Yankees are a non-factor, I'm a happy guy.

[Blue Train]

  On 12/20/2012 at 7:58 PM, GoodSpeak said:

Jason Schmidt, [after pitching 3 games in early April, going on the DL then pitching 3 more games in early June then missing the rest of the 2007 season and all of 2008 and placed on the IR list] pitched 4 mediocre games spanning his quasi-return in late July and exit in early August. 10 games, 10 starts, a 4-6 record, in three years' time with three stints on the DL/IR list spanning nearly two years. He was done and did little to help his new team after the move. Hence, my point about trading Dickey.

http://www.baseball-...1&t=p&year=2007

http://www.baseball-...1&t=p&year=2009

And the problem here is what again...?

I realize you have never been big on details. You said he pitched a few games went on IR and not DL and that he never pitched again. He did pitch again. In fact he pitched four more times in 2009 and was 2-2 http://www.baseball-...a01.shtml   Then he never pitched again. As in, you were not accurate.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Blue Train

[Matthew]

Yeah, Dan & Blue Train, that's what it is, trying to get low for when the new CBA takes effect, I just couldn't remember the details.

[Tim McG]

  On 12/20/2012 at 8:13 PM, Blue Train said:

  On 12/20/2012 at 7:58 PM, GoodSpeak said:

Jason Schmidt, [after pitching 3 games in early April, going on the DL then pitching 3 more games in early June then missing the rest of the 2007 season and all of 2008 and placed on the IR list] pitched 4 mediocre games spanning his quasi-return in late July and exit in early August. 10 games, 10 starts, a 4-6 record, in three years' time with three stints on the DL/IR list spanning nearly two years. He was done and did little to help his new team after the move. Hence, my point about trading Dickey.

http://www.baseball-...1&t=p&year=2007

http://www.baseball-...1&t=p&year=2009

And the problem here is what again...?

I realize you have never been big on details. You said he pitched a few games went on IR and not DL and that he never pitched again.He did pitch again.In fact he pitched four more times in 2009 and was 2-2http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schmija01.shtml

Edited December 20, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Brad]

  On 12/19/2012 at 6:03 PM, Quincy said:

  On 12/19/2012 at 3:52 AM, PHILLYQ said:

....but it at least looks like there may be a plan...After the stain of Bay(his salary) departs

From the Mets to Mariners. It's not going to be a happy season for either "M" team but it's so depressing on this end that the one "big pickup" is a 34 year old outfielder that the Mets didn't want anymore. Ugh.

Unfortunately, that has become a common refrain. Must be something to any team ending with the letters "ets" as in Jets, Mets and Nets.

[Matthew]

  On 12/19/2012 at 6:03 PM, Quincy said:

  On 12/19/2012 at 3:52 AM, PHILLYQ said:

....but it at least looks like there may be a plan...After the stain of Bay(his salary) departs

From the Mets to Mariners. It's not going to be a happy season for either "M" team but it's so depressing on this end that the one "big pickup" is a 34 year old outfielder that the Mets didn't want anymore. Ugh.

I thought the Kendrys Morales trade for the Mariners was a good one, not earth shaking, but Morales seems to still have gas left in the tank.

[Quincy]

  On 12/21/2012 at 5:09 PM, Matthew said:

  On 12/19/2012 at 6:03 PM, Quincy said:

  On 12/19/2012 at 3:52 AM, PHILLYQ said:

....but it at least looks like there may be a plan...After the stain of Bay(his salary) departs

From the Mets to Mariners. It's not going to be a happy season for either "M" team but it's so depressing on this end that the one "big pickup" is a 34 year old outfielder that the Mets didn't want anymore. Ugh.

I thought the Kendrys Morales trade for the Mariners was a good one, not earth shaking, but Morales seems to still have gas left in the tank.

I agree. That happened after my whining. Hitting at Safeco he could hit .240 with 20 HR and be like Mickey F*cking Mantle for the team.

[JSngry]

AJ to Rangers...Rangers fans perplexed about the Douche Factor...me, just play and bring the fire. This team could use some fiery douchiness, to be honest.

Found this GIF of a Dickey knuckler on Lone Star Ball. Granted, it's just one pitch, and granted again, it's a slo-mo, but still, geez...

[Blue Train]

  On 12/23/2012 at 3:47 AM, JSngry said:

AJ to Rangers...Rangers fans perplexed about the Douche Factor...me, just play and bring the fire. This team could use some fiery douchiness, to be honest.

Found this GIF of a Dickey knuckler on Lone Star Ball. Granted, it's just one pitch, and granted again, it's a slo-mo, but still, geez...

What really made it work so well this year is his average knucleball was around 77mph, which is around 9mph more than the average knucleball.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Blue Train

[PHILLYQ]

  On 12/21/2012 at 5:09 PM, Matthew said:

  On 12/19/2012 at 6:03 PM, Quincy said:

  On 12/19/2012 at 3:52 AM, PHILLYQ said:

....but it at least looks like there may be a plan...After the stain of Bay(his salary) departs

From the Mets to Mariners. It's not going to be a happy season for either "M" team but it's so depressing on this end that the one "big pickup" is a 34 year old outfielder that the Mets didn't want anymore. Ugh.

I thought the Kendrys Morales trade for the Mariners was a good one, not earth shaking, but Morales seems to still have gas left in the tank.

If he hits a game-winning homer, just handshakes and a pat on the back, that's it.

[Dan Gould]

Well the Yankees just got younger. How? By subtraction - Ibanez signed with the M's.

[Quincy]

  On 12/23/2012 at 12:50 PM, Dan Gould said:

Well the Yankees just got younger. How? By subtraction - Ibanez signed with the M's.

And not that he was that old, but Swisher is now an Indian. While I admire Ibanez I'm not sure he'll last much longer than Griffey did in his return.

[PHILLYQ]

  On 12/23/2012 at 7:20 PM, Quincy said:

  On 12/23/2012 at 12:50 PM, Dan Gould said:

Well the Yankees just got younger. How? By subtraction - Ibanez signed with the M's.

And not that he was that old, but Swisher is now an Indian. While I admire Ibanez I'm not sure he'll last much longer than Griffey did in his return.

Head-scratching signing to me, they won't be competitive for awhile and they spent a lot of $$ to get Swisher.

[JSngry]

Is it just me, or does Nick Swisher in a baseball hat look like a real-life bobblehead?

[Tim McG]

  On 12/26/2012 at 2:51 AM, JSngry said:

Is it just me, or does Nick Swisher in a baseball hat look like a real-life bobblehead?

It's just you.

[PHILLYQ]

  On 12/26/2012 at 2:51 AM, JSngry said:

Is it just me, or does Nick Swisher in a baseball hat look like a real-life bobblehead?

Good one!!!

[Matthew]

What the heck kind of team is Boston going to have next year? An amazing turnover.

[PHILLYQ]

  On 12/27/2012 at 12:18 AM, Matthew said:

What the heck kind of team is Boston going to have next year? An amazing turnover.

They'll have Ryan Dumpster, an NL pitcher who got shelled as a Ranger rental, Shane Victorino @$39mil for 3years, and they just traded for a relief pitcher from Pittsburgh. The Bosox should send the Dodgers a thank you card for absorbing the huge contracts in the Crawford/Gonzalez/ etc. trade, it gave Boston a fairly clean slate to retool/rebuild.