Jazz albums reissued on CD by Atlantic Japan

[jazzbo]

I get them from dustygroove at decent prices.

[etherbored]

i've about 40 of them and i find the transfer and mastering to be uniformly excellent - and that's putting it mildly. that having been said, i don't have any of the titles that i recall "erwbol" not liking.

that blue note LT series is another matter altogether. worst mastering of any japanese series i've *ever* collected. granted, it's only 30 years of collecting, but still. uniformly dreadful!

[jazzbo]

Odd. I really like them.

[erwbol]

The treble boost on the Warner Japan CDs is highly grating, but might compensate for thirty years of hearing loss.

On second hearing some BNLT999s have set me thinking after reading comments here. Unfortunately my equipment is all packed right now.

The two BNLA999s I've heard have not set me thinking (Bobby Hutcherson's Live at Montreux & McCoy Tyner's Extensions).

Edited December 8, 2013 by erwbol

[king ubu]

there we go again ....

btw, of the European ones, amazon.it is selling lots and lots for 4-5 €

[mikeweil]

Sound varies widely on these Atlantic recordings - some of the early sessions from the 1950's were beautifully recorded, but at a low level, causing audible tape hiss. Some early stereo sessions are sonic disasters (as Michael Cuscuna named it at the occasion of the Atlantic MJQ box set on Mosaic). Each tape must be treated individually.

However, a mint condition first generation mono LP, beats it all.

Edited December 8, 2013 by mikeweil

[jazzbo]

The treble boost on the Warner Japan CDs is highly grating, but might compensate for thirty years of hearing loss.

On second hearing some BNLT999s have set me thinking after reading comments here. Unfortunately my equipment is all packed right now.

The two BNLA999s I've heard have not set me thinking (Bobby Hutcherson's Live at Montreux & McCoy Tyner's Extensions).

Interesting. Can't really say I hear treble boost in most of those i have.

[erwbol]

The treble boost on the Warner Japan CDs is highly grating, but might compensate for thirty years of hearing loss.

On second hearing some BNLT999s have set me thinking after reading comments here. Unfortunately my equipment is all packed right now.

The two BNLA999s I've heard have not set me thinking (Bobby Hutcherson's Live at Montreux & McCoy Tyner's Extensions).

Interesting. Can't really say I hear treble boost in most of those i have.

The Blakey-Monk and Mingus clearly show a treble boost on my system, especially when compared to the Passions of a Man box set and the following release of the Blakey album.

I think you mentioned somewhere you can easily adjust the highs on your system so it is possible for you to enjoy most modern remasters?

I did not plan on ever discussing these Warner Japan Atlantic discs again, so this is likely the last time I will reply to this thread.

Edited December 8, 2013 by erwbol

[king ubu]

Uhm, why do you picture that edition of the Blakey/Monk? Happens to be the one I've got ...

[Head Man]

Uhm, why do you picture that edition of the Blakey/Monk? Happens to be the one I've got ...

...you won't get an answer

[erwbol]

Uhm, why do you picture that edition of the Blakey/Monk? Happens to be the one I've got ...

Because it's the one I compared the Japanese disc to.

Also, I might not have been importing Japanese CDs for thirty years, but I have been collecting Japanese discs from the eighties, nineties and 21st century for a while now and comparing these against EU/US releases.

[king ubu]

Okay, thanks!

It's the only of that series that I happen to have ... got the Minguses and Coltranes in the respective boxes and have alyways been very happy with those (had some of the old "domestic" Atlantic CDs by Mingus before, but back then - I was a teenager - I wouldn't even bother to compare anything, rather just gave away duplicates).

[Late]

With some trepidation, I bring this thread up (from two huge months ago) ... ... to discuss sonics and music .

I, wisely or unwisely, ordered nine titles from this (24-bit WPCR) series. If it helps anyone regarding purchase decisions (within this series), this post will have been a moderate personal success. Here are some subjective reactions:

1. Lennie Tristano: "Tristano"

If you have the U.S. edition, no need to purchase the Japanese disc. The sound on the Japanese disc is not bad (the session wasn't well-recorded to begin with, I'm guessing), but is no better than the U.S. disc. This Japanese edition sounds like it uses some compression. There are peaks that hurt the ears. I wish I would have purchased the 20-bit AMCY edition when it was available.

2. Lennie Tristano: "The New Tristano"

Get this one — not because the sonics are superior to the U.S. edition (they're about equal), but because it reinstates the missing track from the U.S. edition: "C Minor Complex." I haven't heard the EU edition.

3. The Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan

I haven't heard the U.S. edition(s) — I think there are two. This one doesn't sound so good (a fair amount of hard-panning, and the piano sounds fairly distant and brittle), BUT the music is ... so good. Who knows, maybe this edition is the best out there. I wouldn't know. But for 952¥, you can at least hear it. There's still a TON to be written/thought about regarding Hasaan's playing. And how much Monk influence there is/isn't.

4. John Lewis: Improvised Meditations & Excursions

Again, I have no comparison, but this one sounds GOOD — . Drums are clean and (seemingly) not boosted. Piano isn't bloated (how could Lewis's piano ever be bloated)? Bass is somewhat thuddy, but not booming. This is my first exposure to this album. I love the "squareness" of Lewis's piano. That seems like a slight, but I don't mean it to be. In fact, I find Lewis's playing to be hip in a way that Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Herbie Hancock could never be. The pleats are ironed, and the aftershave (not too much) is on — neat (like a proper martini).

5. Billy Taylor: One For Fun

Eff. I LOVE this album. This disc sounds too loud to me. Eff. Eff. Eff. Again, I wish I'd purchased the AMCY edition (how many years back?). I don't like this Japanese edition (but will listen to it anyway). The music, to me, is some of Taylor's best, hippest, playing — very much overlooked. Earl May is killer.

6. Shorty Rogers: Martians Come Back!

Oh eff. What the eff. Are you effing kidding me? What the eff did you say? I couldn't hear you! This disc makes Jimmy Giuffre's (heaven-sent) clarinet sound like a barge horn. If I were a cartoon character, I would stomp on the disc, take a bite out of it, throw it out the door, run outside, and then stomp on it some more. I love the music on this album. The sonics (maybe it never sounded so good to begin with? I hope so ~ ) kill me. I never use this smiley, but here it goes: . Please, someone, tell me I had too much whiskey when I listened (listen) to this. Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I will keep trying.

7. Ornette Coleman: Ornette On Tenor

Finally! This one sounds good. Ornette's tenor is personal and up-front, Jimmy Garrison's bass is better-defined than in the U.S. box set, and it's not too loud. (It's louder than the U.S. edition, but not in a peak-hitting way.) I will go on record again as stating that this is a grossly under-valued Ornette recording. What tenor player could or can play like this? Here is a marker for bad-ass: . Thank you, Ben Wallace.

8. Ornette Coleman: Ornete!

To be honest, I haven't listened enough to this one to give it any kind of review. To be continued.

9. Roland Kirk: The Inflated Tear

Overall, sounds better than the U.S. "deluxe" toilet paper roll edition — whew. Piano parts are cleaner, bass does boom on parts, and Kirk's horn is up-front, but not glaringly so. Does anyone else get choked up (not all the time, but sometimes?) listening to the title track? Jesus — what a piece of music. A great album. Jimmy Hopps = underrated drummer. Also has to be one of the best (most fun) bonus tracks ... ever.

Scientific? No. Informed? Partially. Literary? Definitely Not.

But the music itself keeps a person up into the night, listening ... .

Edited February 16, 2014 by Late

[ArtSalt]

With some trepidation, I bring this thread up (from two huge months ago) ... ... to discuss sonics and music .

3. The Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan

I haven't heard the U.S. edition(s) — I think there are two. This one doesn't sound so good (a fair amount of hard-panning, and the piano sounds fairly distant and brittle), BUT the music is ... so good. Who knows, maybe this edition is the best out there. I wouldn't know. But for 952¥, you can at least hear it. There's still a TON to be written/thought about regarding Hasaan's playing. And how much Monk influence there is/isn't.

Scientific? No. Informed? Partially. Literary? Definitely Not.

But the music itself keeps a person up into the night, listening ... .

The sound on these series have underwhelmed me too, the Jimmy Giuffre ones are also dissapointing and flat. The Max Roach and Hassan failed to ignite me too and I just haven't been back to listen to any of these after the first listen. The ones I have are all the Rhino remasters and despite having obi strips and being sourced from Japan, a number I have found to be made in the EU (Max Roach and Hassan).

It drives me mad listening to the different sonic characteristics and quality of remasters trying to find the ultimate version!

[J.A.W.]

I got a few of these WPCR CDs and listened to them only once many months ago. I found most of them a tad too loud, as I posted earlier. After reading Late's post above I just listened to Billy Taylor's One for Fun again and I totally agree, it's way too loud; very unpleasant and fatiguing.

[J.A.W.]

Also played Charles Lloyd's Dream Weaver in this series. I never really liked this album but thought I'd give it another try; after a few minutes it became clear that it's not for me. I didn't like the sound on this reissue very much either, but it's not as bad as the Billy Taylor I listened to earlier today.

[Late]

Oops. I forgot I had 13 of these discs, not nine. The additional four: three Eddie Harris's, and To Whom Who Keeps A Record. I need to listen to the Harris titles again to make any kind of coherent review. The Ornette title is a rare improvement to my ears. I haven't heard the Water edition of this disc, but the WPCR edition sounds better than the U.S. box set.

I think my problem with this series is that I purchased the Ornette titles first, they sounded OK to me, and then I dove in for more thinking they'd all sound along these lines. Nope. Frustrating. Will the Billy Taylor title ever be given a decent remaster? Perhaps not. You can tell (well, I'm assuming) that the session is actually well-recorded. The mp3 download I have from Amazon of this record is actually better than the Japanese edition.

[sidewinder]

I was thinking of buying a few of these at £5 a shot but reading through this thread has put me right off...

However, a mint condition first generation mono LP, beats it all.

Have to agree that that definitely applies to most Atlantics I have heard.

Edited February 16, 2014 by sidewinder

[Clunky]

I was thinking of buying a few of these at £5 a shot but reading through this thread has put me right off...

However, a mint condition first generation mono LP, beats it all.

Have to agree that that definitely applies to most Atlantics I have heard.

"London" Atlantics and are a pretty good and cheaper option (usually)

[sidewinder]

I agree with the London Atlantics. A good example is the John Coltrane 'Giant Steps' mono. Fantastic sonics on that one.

[J.A.W.]

Oops. I forgot I had 13 of these discs, not nine. The additional four: three Eddie Harris's, and To Whom Who Keeps A Record. I need to listen to the Harris titles again to make any kind of coherent review. The Ornette title is a rare improvement to my ears. I haven't heard the Water edition of this disc, but the WPCR edition sounds better than the U.S. box set.

I think my problem with this series is that I purchased the Ornette titles first, they sounded OK to me, and then I dove in for more thinking they'd all sound along these lines. Nope. Frustrating. Will the Billy Taylor title ever be given a decent remaster? Perhaps not. You can tell (well, I'm assuming) that the session is actually well-recorded. The mp3 download I have from Amazon of this record is actually better than the Japanese edition.

I sold my individual Ornette Atlantic CDs when I got the Beauty Is a Rare Thing box; the sound on that box is good enough for me and, as I said elsewhere, I like to hear the tracks in recorded order.

As for the Billy Taylor One for Fun remaster that I played earlier today, I just found out that I have the Japanese remaster from 2006, WPCR-25140. Judging by Late's assessment I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same remaster for his version, it might just be a reissue of the earlier one. Anyway, mine really did sound bad.

Edited February 16, 2014 by J.A.W.

[Clunky]

I'd not played this one until today and it's the first of this WPCR-27xxx series I don't care for. In part it's Rosolino's singing and the sound is a touch on the harsh side. All sounds a bit too much like a shouting match.

Frank Rosolino ---------Turn me loose--------(Reprise) WPCR 27233

On the other hand this sounds well balanced, driving but not in any way fatiguing

Clarke/ Boland band --------Jazz is universal------(Atlantic)

Both do these are Euro-Japanese issues ( for what it's worth)

[xybert]

4. John Lewis: Improvised Meditations & Excursions

Again, I have no comparison, but this one sounds GOOD — . Drums are clean and (seemingly) not boosted. Piano isn't bloated (how could Lewis's piano ever be bloated)? Bass is somewhat thuddy, but not booming. This is my first exposure to this album. I love the "squareness" of Lewis's piano. That seems like a slight, but I don't mean it to be. In fact, I find Lewis's playing to be hip in a way that Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Herbie Hancock could never be. The pleats are ironed, and the aftershave (not too much) is on — neat (like a proper martini).

I picked this one up also and was really surprised by how much i've enjoyed it. I think i know what you mean by the 'squareness' of Lewis's piano and it not being a bad thing... it sounds quite hip to me. My self imposed perceptions of Lewis and the MJQ continue to change.

Sound wise the Lewis sounds good to me, however i picked up a couple of Art Farmers which are basically unlistenable for me, which is saying something as i'm normally not that fussy.

[jazzbo]

I've been playing about with polarity on these releases, which is easy for me to do as my DAC has a button. Interesting results.

[king ubu]

4. John Lewis: Improvised Meditations & Excursions

Again, I have no comparison, but this one sounds GOOD — . Drums are clean and (seemingly) not boosted. Piano isn't bloated (how could Lewis's piano ever be bloated)? Bass is somewhat thuddy, but not booming. This is my first exposure to this album. I love the "squareness" of Lewis's piano. That seems like a slight, but I don't mean it to be. In fact, I find Lewis's playing to be hip in a way that Wynton Kelly, Bill Evans, or Herbie Hancock could never be. The pleats are ironed, and the aftershave (not too much) is on — neat (like a proper martini).

I picked this one up also and was really surprised by how much i've enjoyed it. I think i know what you mean by the 'squareness' of Lewis's piano and it not being a bad thing... it sounds quite hip to me. My self imposed perceptions of Lewis and the MJQ continue to change.

Sound wise the Lewis sounds good to me, however i picked up a couple of Art Farmers which are basically unlistenable for me, which is saying something as i'm normally not that fussy.

That's a delightful album indeed!

But, this and a few others discussed in Late's post made me wonder, too ... are we talking of Japanese Warners or of the European ones that look like Japanese but aren't? My Lewis is among the later, so is the Clarke/Boland, so are all the Lloyds ... and more Lewis, Bags, and others ... they go for 4-5 € on amazon.it).

btw, never was hip to the track mix-up (deletion?) on the Tristano ... happy owner of the Mosaic set (was my very first) and happy with that in all respects ...